The point I was making with the players I listed was how they made the transition to HDR and have done well. Maybe they are not “THE” best players with their respective characters but you can’t tell me that they’re pushovers either.
If we left out players opinions based on who they’ve played then the supposed list that is eventually made would be inaccurate.
A. You have no idea who has really played who so even opinions from what we think are reliable sources may not be all that reliable at all
B. By ONLY including a much smaller experienced played base you skew the results for lack of numbers
HF is an awesome game, it’s probably the street fighter that i was most into apart from ST/HDR and was the game that really got me serious about street fighter. I think it’s street fighter 2 in it’s purest, most stripped back, bread n butter form. All the stuff that you need to be good at HF is the core “must have” essentials for pretty much any Street fighter game that came after it, and i think it’s all this stuff that HF top players are strong at. Some have managed to incorporate newer aspects of the newer games into their play styles and get good at them too, and some havent, and have faded, but the basics of street fighter is what HF is all about and you need to have good skills in those areas to do well at it.
You need fast reaction time, (because of the quick speed), tight knowledge of your combos and normals, and good use of spacing. And that’s it, because you really don’t have anything else. There are no juggles, no super moves, less variation in your move arsenal, and less superfluous things to fall back on or get sidetracked by. Even stuff like the character design similarities between ryu and ken were still much closer than they eventually evolved to be, the designers hadn’t gone as far down the road of making them totally different fighters with entirely diferent sets of normal and special properties yet, you had to rely more on their basic moves and strategies than anything you would get by chosing one specifically over the other. Aside from a couple of key differences in some special move properties, they essentially had the same set of attacks.
Super street fighter 2 felt like a bit of a step backwards to me in terms of a slower speed, but then Super Turbo came out shortly after it and basically took the speed and simplicity of HF, threw in a wider, more diverse, and much more versatile set of moves for each character and added some new mechanic properties and the super move system that complicated things a bit more and gave you much more to think about in a match.
Super Turbo is a fantastic game, and definitely is the best in the series of the original 5 games to me. ST/HDR will always be my favourite street fighter, but sometimes it’s nice to go back to the core basics with HF. In my experience the guys who were really good at Hyper are the guys who can pick up any other street fighter and transition to it easily if they want to, without being too rooted in their favourite version and not playing anything else, because it’s all about the bread and butter of the franchise. That’s what i love about it.
I’m honored, good sir. Heh, I remember when I first played you on a PS3 HDR online tourney not knowing who the heck you were and seeing those damn Blanka shenanigans for the first time LOL. If anything our matches have improved my reaction time quite a bit!
Yes, I already conceded that I was too harsh in my choice of words.
Adding a bunch of people who say “Norieaga” is the best Cammy, simply because he is the best one they have played, doesn’t make it so. That is what will skew the results. Not everyone’s input should be weighted the same, trimming down the input to only people who have the experience to knowledgeably speak on the subject makes the results more accurate, not less.
I hope you’re using my name only as an example, because absolutely nobody has said that I’m the best Cammy. In fact, I’ve only gotten 1 or 2 mentions. If you look at player lists you’ll see that most of the mentions are similar, so we can conclude that most of the community has some sort of agreement on who the better players are. There may be minor variations, sure, but people here know their stuff.
SMQ is a very good player, he’d probably be in the 2nd tier after the elites regardless of the fact that he’s a retarded monkey. I think you’re too harsh of a critic.
As for weighing opinions differently? I consider myself a solid player and I can be competitive with most of the elite players (maybe not Honda and Blanka players but everyone else, yes.) And guess what, my top players list is largely the same as everyone elses. For example, I faced DGV once in my life and concluded he was the best Ryu right on the spot. Guess I wasn’t wrong. Take BlueTallCans’ list, for example. He mentions Silver Rain 007 as the 2nd best Cammy, yet this is Silver’s only mention in the thread. We can’t say he’s not skilled enough to know–he’s much better than you, even–so how do we figure it out? Did BTC discover a gem that others are just not aware of? And lastly, I recognize almost every name here in the HD forum. All of these players are good enough to make lists. You’d have to be an extremely inferior player to not be able to make a competent top 5 list.
1.) Ummm… DGV = Awesome. Same story, Same Conclusion… this is truth.
2.) YOU’RE DAMN RIGHT HE DISCOVERED A GEM! LOL. I mean… uh… I suck. But seriously, I mean there was a great point mentioned earlier (sorry I’m too lazy to go look and quote properly right now…) that at the end of the day, a list by any one person can only be compiled of people who you’ve played. It’s unfair to judge people on reputation. I mean don’t get me wrong, I love the respect from BTC, I personally believe he is the best Blanka player I’ve played, but I haven’t played all the REALLY good blankas to compare… admittedly, he’s the only Blanka who’s ever dominated me in a way where I said “I’m going to get him once or twice, but out of ten he’s going to really own me hard.” Which brings me to the second point in this second point… What standard do we use to judge in light of this? I actually thought a poll standard would be good. What someone could do, is we could have a nomination process, say with 10 players for each character, and then you could vote on an order.
Never played Muteki but I know how good he is from videos. From the rest on there Fifthandsomebud gives me the most trouble and Caesar gives me more trouble than Axel Kelly Marsgatti or To13go13.
XBL Brian gave me the most trouble out of any other Guile player on XBL
Ya you really can’t take these types of threads too seriously. This is an online game and some people (including myself) feel that playing in person on a standup cabinet is really the true way to determine how good a player really is.
I guess I could fall into this category since I was mainly playing competitively back in the Champion Edition/Hyper Fighting days. I was out of SF2 in general for close to 10 years until I picked up this game and a PS3. You could also say that great players who really started in Super/Super Turbo, aren’t that great in CE/HF or in AE against CPS1 characters. In general, being good consistently is what makes great players. Playing good consistently is something I feel I don’t have anymore.
Obviously. But the fact you even got mentioned is the problem I am talkign about. Honestly, do you think you belong in a top players list? Yet someone might list you simply because they haven’t had the expeince of playing better players.
But how do you know DGV is the best Ryu? Just because he destroyed you? This is the problem I am talking about. DGV is clearly the best Ryu online, but you had no way of knowing just how good he is. You’ve never played John Choi, or any other top Ryu players to compare him too.
You’re lack of experience is why you list players like Eggo and Sharizord. Both great players, but not top in their respective characters.
You will notice I said experience not skill. I never played Silver Rain so I don’t know how good he is. The simple fact is that no one really has enough Cammy experience to make an adequate top 5 list as there are just not enough high level Cammy players. Who knows, maybe Silver Rain, Mongolorobokop, and I actually do belong on a top Cammy list (which is actually sad as Ceasar and I only mess around with her). The only player who we are absolutely sure belongs is Mr. Jangara.
This is why player experience is so important.
Actually most people feel that way (except it’s on a console not arcade, and if it was arcade it would be a candy cab not a standup, get with the times! :razzy:) which is how it should be. I want to figure out who the top players are in HDR just in general, not only online. So tournament results are very important. Unfortunately there is just not enough of it, so we need to supplement it with online data, while keeping in mind that online results don’t mean as much.
I don’t belong on a top players list, but I’d say I belong in a list of good players (keep in mind HDR is the first time I’ve played people other than the CPU, and I never played ST). I’m gonna take a stab and say I could make a top 10 list of Cammys eventually, but I don’t know too many players for her anyway. The other thing is that I think people here have gone off-base and have just listed good players for each character, not really the best. I’m fairly certain I’m not the best Cammy Mikeidge has ever played, but he probably recognizes my “skill” and decided to post my name. Same with ExposedD - I played him for the first time a week or so ago, and I told him that he kinda came outta nowhere and surprised me with his skill. Chances are I did the same for him, and low-and-behold we listed each-other. You’re reading too much into the thread, its obvious people are loosely posting names. The other problem is that the word opinion is posted in the OP. That word alone ends our discussion.
How did I know? Because I’ve been playing SF long enough and I can recognize when someone can flawlessly perform combos, reversals, and mind-games all in one. I made the same decision about DE Mavrick when I first played him in '08, 2 years later I see his name on everyone’s top Bison list. When you’ve played the game long enough you develop instinct and intuition. If you’re arguing that I have a lack of experience because I haven’t played too many elite players enough, then you can tell the same thing to many people here. What’s the point of discussing the game if only Daigo, BTC, and a selected few can comment on it?
Go through my XBL friends list and you’ll see who I play HDR with when I log on. I can honestly say I’ve experienced enough. The only players I haven’t played–and probably never will–are John Choi, Daigo, and the other folks who don’t play online over XBL.
Just because there aren’t too many good Cammy’s doesn’t mean we should forget about her in the list. Ex. if there are 5 good Cammy’s online and BTC played them all, his lack of experience shouldn’t be punished just because there are too few Cammy players. I assume BTC has played all the better Cammy’s online, especially when I have in my short tenure and he’s a seasoned veteran.
What you’re arguing has no place in this thread because the thread itself is open to everyone. If you want results that would satisfy you then conduct research based strictly off of input from a selected few. That’s really all there is to it.
EDIT: I found my original list that I posted. Comments after each arrow.
*Akuma - doesn’t matter
Blanka - Bluetallcans --> Correct
Balrog - Afrolegends --> Correct
Ken - damdai/WesTCyde --> Correct
Zangief - Haru Tejyo --> No-brainer
Dhalsim - Eggo --> Wrong
Vega - Sharizord --> Wrong (I played Blacmore once and beat him, I’m basing this because Shari used to beat my ass 20 times over so its more towards personal feeling)
Ryu - DGV --> Correct
Fei Long - The Aqua Snake (never played Jumpsuit to compare) --> Wrong, but a case can be made for Aqua
Dee Jay - Afrolegends --> Correct
Honda - Thelo --> Can be argued that its Kurropi or EA, but Thelo is a safe choice regardless
Guile - Marsgatti --> I’ve played 5th and went even with him, and beat To13. Never beat Mars so I base it off of that
Cammy - Norieaga --> Clearly Mr. Jangara
Bison - DE Mavrick --> Wrong, but some kind of a case can be made for Mavrick, even if Zass or anyone else is better
Sagat - N/A
Chun Li - N/A (there are many good Chun’s but none that hit me as the best)
T. Hawk - Kurropi (only played Jiggly’s Bison, cannot compare) --> Jiggly might be better but this is a safe choice.
Going by that list I’ve played every top player for every character almost, and some of my incorrect choices can at least be argued for to some degree. Its not like I fucked up completely. For some characters I also noted my lack of experience and declined to comment.
*
Wow! It would almost seem that my last post here was a futile effort to balance this thread because I realized the direction this “Best of…” was heading a few page back but obviously maybe only one person read my suggestion on my last post. Yeah, a lot of good debatable topics have been pointed out thus far but this old school versus new school SF is irrelavant. I mean this thread is suppose to be about “XBL HDR Online players”, not offline, not retro HF days, etc, just good ol’ HDR. I think I can safely say that everyone knows offline is better than online in terms of measuring one’s true ability. No need for rehash.
Originally, this great concept brought to us by Nipul Herr, is suppose to be a thread where players throw up a list of who they think are the best players and you can kinda gain a sense of who’s consistently making the list as more players post their lists. I threw an idea out earlier on how we could make a general consenus if we really want to know what the online community thinks who the best players are giving the complexities of ranking up to 5 characters tops. I still think that the polling method would be the best way to rank if anyone really give a shit about this. I don’t know if one could ever make a truly 100% accurate list but a polling system would ensure a consensus idea of who the active community think is on top five.
Besides if no one takes this thread seriously…then why so serious? <Yeah, you can insert The Joker’s Voice here!>
Just as little as people should be getting upset over someone not agreeing with their list, they should not be getting upset over being said to not be a top player.
These lists don’t really mean that much anyway to the people who are actually listed i believe at least.
I know who i can beat and i know who i can’t.
Therefore i am not really bothered when someone says i am a top player or i am not a top player and that’s the attitude you should have.
And it’s also the reason why i have never made one of these lists.
If someone doubts your ability and you disagree rather than arguing with them over it simply play them.
And considering this list was indeed made for online top players that should not be that hard to arrange.
I also saw someone arguing about how people should not be basing these on personal experience or perhaps rather lack of experience that seems kind of flawed.
First of all what else is there to base an online top players list on ?
Evo results ? That’s offline.
Regional Tournaments ? Also offline.
Ranking boards ? Won’t even go into this one.
The only thing left is personal experience unless you want to argue about common consensus.
But then it just turns into a popularity contest.
Furthermore proving someone to be wrong in these lists seem kinda hard to do.
In the end it might be better to spend the time that could be spent arguing over this adding and playing the people from the list you don’t agree with and see if that changes your opinion.
Hey just came in too say that DGV and Myself along with all the other Denjinites are Trying to keep this game alive by actually showing up at tournaments and placing high Dgv got 2nd and Fuddruckers and i got 3rd and once again john Choi beat us…
Not Saying he is a bad player but it’s just frustrating when we have soo many good “online” players that never show up yet the come on here and talk shit… pleaser use that anger and put it to good use at tournaments… I’m tired off letting the old schoolers who don’t even practice the game showing up and winning everytime…
Those are top players. This has turned into a pissing contest of some sort. I’ve always been under the impression that to be somebody you gotta beat somebody. ox SNAKE EYEZ xo is a beast on xbl, and got knocked out early on in pools. He’s good, but not a top player. So if I were to ask valle, choi, , jason cole…what’s your opnion of bruce askew or mister ego trip…I’m sure they’d LoL. Out of those that placed top 8 at evo I’ve played, damdai, thelo, and afro legends. So they are top players, who play on xbl, and who have placed at evo, the wrestlemania of tournies, and really the only one that matters.
--> Clearly Mr. Jangara