Yeah, if I can use Iori that might work out. He is one of the first characters I ever used, and he makes a great battery.
i just wonder why mihai feels iori does well against vega. iori has to get in and vega is the god of keeping you out so i thought it would be lop sided in vega’s favor.
Understand. I think Iori might play the come to me game. I don’t know if he can punish after a ball, but a lot of people love to use the ball, and if Iori can throw in a rekka chain afterward it will probably land good damage.
I just guessing though. Maybe it’s a rolling through/evasion game?
honda vs vega is even in my books. Honda’s a tank, his chip off his headbutt matches pretty well vs vega’s cr.mp. And if he manages to get a headbutt or two in, vega can’t run away anymore. If both players knows what they’re doing with their respective characters (honda/vega), and both people know how to RC, the match is even.
no honda player would do random headbutts from a full screen away.
All Iori needs is that one opp. to get in and its basically game over for Vega.
2 decent combo’s = stunned Vega, combo xx super for the kill basically.
Just for the record, no one can punish vegas ball. It leaves you at 0.
Iori does really well against vega if he lands one combo, like already mentioned.
Honda vs Vega I think is 6-4 in vegas favor just because its Vega.
Just woke up =\ I put Iori for this reason, and because although it may be considered “scrubby”, random roll to get in when he tries to zone you can lead to Vega’s death.
About Honda vs Vega, I think Vega beats him just cause he can bait out Honda’s main tools (RC Headbutt/Slaps) and punish them fairly easily (jump straight up fierce/rh) from around Vega’s max c. strong range. If Honda just turtles in the corner, Vega can just keep jiggling and poking with c. strong while mixing in jump up fierces/rh.
Hoah vs Honda. Haoh can outpoke Vega with far strong, jump up fierce, far fierce. From fullscreen, Haoh can throw a jab Tornado, and Honda has to roll, jump up as it passes under him, or jump forward, RC Headbutt through it, or RC Slap through it, or whatever. Point is, the Tornado is so slow, that Haoh can follow up pretty well based on whatever Honda does. If Honda does nothing, he can jumpin on Honda for free even from fullscreen IIRC with j. fierce after Honda blocks it. If Honda reacted to it with an early fierce RC Headbutt in hopes of hitting Haoh, I think Honda’s invincibility runs out as he approaches it, and he will lose/trade, but either way, the Tornado knocks Honda down and you can then do super meaty crossup forward setups with Hao, which loop, and which can lead to serious damage. Anytime you have a lead on Honda, ABUSE it. That is Honda’s greatest weakness IMO. Having to come to someone and feebly attack. Oh yeah, Haoh’s massive sj arc is also awesome for like random jump back fierces to counter any close range RC headbutts. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, he can get in quickly from the opposite end of the screen using his huge sj. fierce. Oh, and watchout doing Tornados fullscreen vs Honda when he has a LVL3 cause he can super through it for free and hit you.
Sorry if this sounds like theory, it’s pretty practical in my eyes. I think simple shit beats Honda, but if you let him get a lead, and get frustrated, it can be hard to break his corner shell. Other than that, he doesn’t do much damage if you play very safe vs him.
hehe, I can random roll. Go team scrubby.
if Honda gets in the right zone, or the player isn’t an idiot, it’s pretty hard to bait out random headbutts. Honda can get close enough where you can react to the headbutt in time to punish.
and Honda blocks a cr.mp or two from vega, and vega runs away. woo, that did no damage. Vega doesn’t own Honda, period.
The other stuff, are you talking Hao vs Vega or Hao vs Honda? First you say Hao counter Vega, then go off talking about Hao vs Honda. That jab fb is not abusable…Honda has three very good options. 1) psychic the fb and move forward with headbutt, jump, roll, 2) BLOCK, 3) jump straight up and f+fp to dodge the fireball, or just air block. If Hao is planning to do that all match, you can bet honda’s going to get in and make you eat big damage.
Yeah I realized I was talking counters to Vega than I went off on Honda lol. Anyway, I never said spam Haoh’s jab Tornado, cause it’s obviously not hard to get around. It’s main purpose is to see what Honda does, cause let’s face it, Honda players tend to sit in their corners and do nothing but jab Headbutt a jumpin, do RC Hands midscreen, or do RC Headbutt upclose. Then you got roll xx LVL2, cancel to fierce Headbutt, roll, LVL3, dash, LVL3, and meaty jab, RC Grab/trip. Oh, and if he wants to move in, he dashes/rolls. That pretty much sums up Honda. I only mentioned the Tornado strat cause it’s a very good way to tell what kind of Honda you’re facing. If he doesn’t advance using roll, jump over, RC Headbutt through it (to make you block it), buttstomp over it, it shows that he’s waiting for an opportunity to counter, and it’s pretty much guaranteed he’s going to start looking for opportunities to punish the jab Tornado. So you counter his intentions and try to bait something out and punish (that’s what the fake Tornado is for). If he jumps straight up, or just jumps back (he’s in the corner), he’s basically a turtle (doesn’t want to take the chip damage because he’s smart and he knows Honda can’t catch Vega), and he’s going to pretty much build a brick house in the corner. So you know how to approach him. Obviously not set in stone, but more than likely, if the Honda is not moving from his corner, you will have to bust out some random shit to bait him out, THEN run from HIM to make his fat ass follow you, and break himself on YOUR defense.
As for Vega vs Honda, while Vega’s c. strong doesn’t do any damage, Honda cannot block forever. Sooner rather than later…he will get thrown by a dash throw, empty jump throw, random j. fierce/rh when Honda loses his charge, etc. It’s not scientific, but turtling hardcore like in say the Honda/Vega ST matchup will not work as well in CVS2. Statistically speaking, unless you’re Mago (god like turtling powers and great intuition), your Honda won’t survive a war of attrition against a good Vega, cause Vega, while predictably linear, WILL land some random shit. And good luck trying to catch up on damage vs Vega. The more desperate you get, the more Vega will hit you with stuff like jump up/back fierce/rh, then go for a throw, corpse hop, c. short, s. rh xx backflip etc. Shit like that. Honda CANNOT play catchup, and he cannot force damage. Whenever you play Honda, you’re assuming that the opponent will break himself on your defense. Players have stopped losing to Honda like that, and only do so when they get really frustrated cause Honda already had a lead (putting him 2nd for example).
randomsuper: Sry man, I was thinking of Vega when I said Haoh, but then I went on about Haoh vs Honda, lol, and I dunno why I added Tornado thing, I was messing around in training mode after I woke up. And I guess that sums it up…don’t post after you wake up. =\
EDIT: Lol wow…I just realized I was thinking of Joe when I put Haoh vs Vega, but it’s actually Haoh that does well against him, not Joe (altho Joe does pretty good). Man, I need more sleep, been sleeping just 4 hours past two nights…
I think Iori countering Vega is more of a theoretical argument than anything. At least for A-Vega. (N)Iori has to commit to alot just to do damage and Vega has braindead counters for all of it.
Jump straight up counters RC rekka
RC crystal flash if he manages to get in
If Iori Preemptively rolls or jumps in anticipation of RC crystal flash Vega can throw/airthrow/anti-air
and if Vega has meter things just get retarded
Of course Iori can still win. In fact the matchup isn’t too bad for Iori cause like someone said if he gets in and lands a combo Vega’ gonna feel it, but I think the matchup is 6-4 in Vega’ favor.
Lastly of all the Buktooth vs Ricky matches I have seen I have seen maybe one where Buktooth’ Iori beat Ricky’ Vega. And those are two players who have maxed out their respective characters.
As far as who counters Vega I think N-Sagat does pretty damn good against him.
Thanks for the continued feedback guys.
At this point I’m just developing a bunch of characters. I’m going to either use Rolento, Cammy, or Iori as my battery. And use either Geese, Chun, Cammy, or Ken as a user.
I’m just trying to figure out who I like and who is worth me slaving to learn. Some of the really great characters are awful in my hands right now and I’m trying to figure out whether it is worth it to train them (Cammy, Ken, kinda Chun).
It’s not that Vega can’t stop Iori’s shit. It’s the fact that once Iori lands some shit of his own, it’s more than likely GGPO. Vega’s damage has always been slow and steady, while Iori’s is fast and heavy.
You obviously haven’t played a good Honda player and you’re just making random comments that make no sense. FYI, not every Honda turtles in the corner.
and on Honda vs Vega, Honda CAN block forever, how many cr.mp do you think you need to do in a roll without jumping in or eating psychic headbutt in order for you to get a guard crush? Trying to guard crush Honda is dumb. I didn’t even mention the good alpha counter that honda has.
Oh, yeah. Cause Honda’s gonna rush you down in C. Shit, my bad. Yeah, I guess your posts deserve special mention. I mean, fuck, why didn’t I think of applying such awesome strategies as “psychic headbutt”. That will def win you EVO. Keep reppin rushdown Honda playa.
Oh yeah, way to take what I posted and translate it into “Vega guard crushes Honda with c. strong”. Reading comprehension FTL? Def. And watchout, that alpha counter of Honda’s will def do a LOT vs Vega, you know, since Vega is a single hit character and all. The alpha counter will really help alleviate the massive rushdown A-Vega offers. Fuck, you’re a genius.
Here’s to noodleman failing to understand English for the second time in a row. I await the third “more bs” aka “I can’t read cause I’m one massively retarded motherfucking idiot”.
[media=youtube]fntSOyqZiMM[/media]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok, noodleman, I know your English reading comprehension is quite low, so try to follow. I’ll use the terms that best describe you in order to grab your attention, since I know your attention span is almost as bad as your reading. MOTHERFUCKER, SCROLL YOUR MOUSE OVER THE LINK, AND PRESS YOUR LEFT MOUSE BUTTON ONCE. THIS WILL TAKE YOU TO A WEBSITE WITH A VIDEO. WATCH THE VIDEO, AND TRY TO COMPREHEND THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS I SAID ARE BEING USED IN THE FIRST ROUND. OK?
OK, NOW I KNOW YOU’RE ALSO SLOW. SO I’LL POINT OUT THE MAIN THINGS I SAID ABOUT THIS MATCHUP, THAT ARE QUITE OBVIOUS IN THIS VIDEO.
A) VEGA WILL GET RANDOM HITS IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
B) THIS LEADS TO HONDA BEHIND ON LIFE.
C) THIS LEADS TO HONDA TRYING TO CHASE DOWN VEGA.
D) THIS RESULTS IN HONDA’S RAPE AND EVENTUAL DEATH.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER.
lol, and Smooth is suppose to be the ultimate A-honda player. notice i keep saying a GOOD honda player. Smooth wasn’t that good with Honda, but he was doing the right stuff at the beginning…trading hits. Guess which way trading favors? You didn’t even LISTEN to the video you listed, where they’re saying smooth is trying to talk shit by playing Honda.
thanks for poor attempt. It was a nice try.
Notice i’m not even saying Honda owns vega, i’m saying the matchup is even, which other people have suggested similar as well (someone mentioned 6-4 to vega, which i agree).
and here’s a link to the REAL match up we’re talking about (A-Vega vs C-Honda), and it’s BAS vs Mago…notice how Honda doesn’t get owned? And how what i’ve said is being applied (psychic headbutts, honda trading damage, etc.)
[media=youtube]sVlK5N3RHXc[/media]
next time you should try and think abit before flaming people who know more about the subject than you do.
First off, you don’t know shit. Note how I ALREADY said Mago is a fucking beast with Honda. He is EASILY the best Honda player in the world. And he still loses. And just because “psychic headbutt” worked twice doesn’t mean it’s a good tactic. And you never once mentioned trading hits with Honda. That doesn’t even apply to this matchup wtf are you talking about? Finally, watch the first 30 seconds or so of the vid when Honda got that roll, RC Slaps off, then a bit later goes for another roll, RC slaps. Everytime Honda goes for anything like that, jump up fierce/rh rapes him. He can’t do shit against neutral jump. Bas decided to stay on the ground, which was pretty dumb IMO since everyone knows what Mago is going to go for. He’s a brute force player. And brute force, just like in real life, tends to get owned if u let it work against the person. Simple translation: let Honda kill himself. No need to work.
here’s a match up chart some jap players made for the top tiers.
http://r4-raiden.shikigami.jp/diagram/index.htm
other people suggesting the SAME conclusion that A-Vega vs C-Honda is 6-4.
do you even pay attention to how much damage the two psychic headbutts did? You don’t win the match solely on one tactic. Notice how Honda CAN rush if he wanted to?
Why is it so hard for you to understand that you can’t do match up analysis unless both players are equal in skill with their characters? Of course a good vega is going to rape a bad honda. the same can be said a bout a good honda raping vega.
Eagle counters Vega?
Really?
I didn’t know that.
I’ll have to pick him up then, I just use Nak for now.
Ok, fine. Enough arguing. The end.
Master Chibi:
I don’t think Eagle counters Vega at all. It’s mainly theory in my eyes. He doesn’t do badly against him, but he’s def not a counter. I don’t think anyone counters A-Vega. He’s too solid. Just like nobody counters A-Blanka. That’s why A-Vega/whatever/Blanka2 is a retarded team.