Has the Soul Calibur series fallen from grace?

[SaikyoBeast]

I played Soul Calibur 4 the other day & I was impressed but not impressed with some things with the game.For one the graphics & the presentation were good but at the same token the addition of the finishing moves for all the characters to me was like been there/done that when they had Critical Edge finishers from Soul Blade.

Critical edge was a long combo that depleted your (the person doing the combo) weapon’s durability by 1/3. Critical finishes are gained via a block meter, and automatically win you the round if your opponent turtles too hard.

Even the characters have fallen from grace IMO.Astaroth went from being a bad ass from Soul Calibur to a joke in SCIV.All of the characters stories are lame now(Rapheal was supposed to be going after Kilik because of the healing stone but didn’t,Maxi still chasing Astaroth & has been unsuccessful & the Taki storyline is boring)

I’ve gotten to the point where I realy want to give up on the series but don’t.Do you guys think the Soul Calibur series has fallen from grace?

Astaroth:

He was created in Ares’ name to seek soul edge, a weapon which could help Ares dethrone Zeus. Shit happened, Ares was forced to take direct possession of Asty, and when Asty found it, Soul Edge was half-destroyed by Sophitia.

Because of this, he agreed to help Nightmare collect souls in order to make it more powerful. He hoped that, after feeding Soul Edge, Ares would be please with the sword.

As he was preparing to betray Nightmare, the good guys showed up and Maxi packed his shit in.

4 Years later, SE starts to resurface, and Ares resurrects Asty in the hopes he won’t fuck up again (lol gods can be stupid). Kunpaetku, Asty’s original creator, found that he was no longer the golem’s true master. He tried to take control and Asty basically went berserk, destroying the temple.

As he fled from his failed creation’s fury, Kunpaetku told him he was created in the image of a man, who we know as Rock.

At the start of/just before SC4, he finds Rock and nearly kills him in the hopes of feeding the man’s great essence to soul edge. Then he realises that he’s replaced service to Kunpaetku with service to Ares, and he’s pissed. He leaves Rock for dead.

Tira finds him shortly after and spouts some BS, he forms a plan to feed soul edge, then devour nightmare, soul edge, and everything else he can in order to become powerful enough to destroy Ares himself.

Saikyo Says: I like this story.

Raphael:

He attempted to steal the stone to cure the illness Soul Edge’s wounds caused him and Amy, but when he touched it, it burned him. So naturally, he destroyed it.

But then he realised that there must be other forces in the world more powerful than soul edge that could also cure him or help him create a world for he and Amy, so when Soul Edge strikes again, he goes out seeking soul calibur.

Saikyo Says: Good enough.

Maxi:

He actually did kill Astaroth in an earlier game. However, Ares got pissed because Astaroth was a creation of his disciples, so Maxi was hurt and lost his memory to a voodoo man who used a piece of soul edge to perform a healing ritual on him.

All he remembered is that he wanted to kill Astaroth. He found Astaroth’s maker and killed him. His name was Kunpaetku, and he died clutching a piece of Soul Edge. Then Maxi continued his search, went to a port, met up with Kilik and Xuing-Xuong, which catalyzed a recovery of his memories.

He was forced to leave them because Kilik’s holy weapon agitated the piece of soul edge imbedded in his body.

During his travels, he was forced to take shelter from a storm. Tira found him, told him that she knew about big ol’ asty, said he couldn’t kill Astaroth without Soul Edge, so he goes looking for Soul Edge in SC4.

Saikyo Says: I just don’t like Maxi. His story is fine though.

Taki:

Her story up to this point was pretty interesting, and if you include the latest as part of the whole, it works.

It’s an average revenge story at this point, SE possessed her master, so she was forced to kill him, but naturally the evil entity fled his body before he died. She wants to destroy SE now.

---

Anyway, I don’t go to fighting games for my stories. SC4 is solid enough to warrant tourney play, and though I haven’t kept up with the scene lately, I enjoyed some small successes before SF4 pulled me away. Each has its flaws, believe me.

I’m not sure why people keep saying SC has gotten worse…other than the offline single player modes (fuck that tower of power bullshit.). It’s changed, I guess, but I’d really like someone to point out how it has changed for the worse. I feel like most people are just bandwagon-hopping.

edit;

sorry if there are some typos or whatever, i’m kind of distracetd. my mom just told me she’s going to put down our dog. she has moderate hip dysplasia (sp?) and our other dog’s kind of fucking with her because she’s not strong enough to fight back anymore. i have to finish a project that’s due tomorrow.

I guess life goes on.

Not my dog’s life, mind you…but…ah, fuck…

[CUTWEST]

SC1 > your life.

[System_1]

I liked Soul Edge on PS1, Soul Calibur 1 and 2, and REALLY enjoyed the single player aspects of 3, but 4 failed HARD. Where did all the modes go? Probably into the graphics or something, it was kinda lame.

[MVC2FAN15]

I find SC 4 to be a fun game but it seems random to add Star Wars character. Also how big the boobs are is just funny.

[E_C]

SC1 is the best in the series.

I think SCII gets more love because 1) many people haven’t played SCI enough to appreciate it, 2) it has more characters, 3) it had a mutli-platform release and its tourney scene had more attention than SC’s did.

Don’t forget LINK!!

Even without a scene to speak of, I think SC1 was the best. I was heavy into SC2, but when I think back on all the stepping and turtling and the 5-move characters, I can’t say that my memories of it are all fond.

Of course, who knows what kind of bullshit would’ve been found in SC1 if it had a scene as big as SC2…

[_Onslaught]

SC4 is the best SC there is.

[Tech_Romancer]

Don’t forget LINK!!

Even without a scene to speak of, I think SC1 was the best. I was heavy into SC2, but when I think back on all the stepping and turtling and the 5-move characters, I can’t say that my memories of it are all fond.

Of course, who knows what kind of bullshit would’ve been found in SC1 if it had a scene as big as SC2…

Now this is something I’ve been curious about with SC2’s tourney scene - with the console exclusive characters, how did they go about handling that? Did they just stick to one version, or ban all the characters?

Also, where was Link in the tier rankings? I only played him for kicks, just abused his bombs, Arrows and boomerang (so funny). I hear people rank him as pretty low, mostly because of his normals, but I’m not sure.

[E_C]

Now this is something I’ve been curious about with SC2’s tourney scene - with the console exclusive characters, how did they go about handling that? Did they just stick to one version, or ban all the characters?

Also, where was Link in the tier rankings? I only played him for kicks, just abused his bombs, Arrows and boomerang (so funny). I hear people rank him as pretty low, mostly because of his normals, but I’m not sure.

Most tourneys just banned them all. The few tourneys I went to, big and small, had setups on all the systems. Controller adapters were big business back then.

As for tiers, Hei was nigh broke, Spawn was eh, Link was crap. Personally, I never played Spawn, I can agree with Hei being too good, and I never played Link seriously so I don’t know.

One thing I never understood about SC1 ranking though was Cervy being 2nd worst. To this day, I still think that’s because the game never had a big tourney scene, because iGDR was over 50%+ damage. Unsafe or not, I don’t see how a character with that type of power is only better than Mina.

[Wellman]

Yes, it has fallen but truthfully, most fighting game series do eventually go through such rough patches. With Soul Calibur, it was a sequel to a pretty good but obscure fighting game (Soul Edge/Blade) and it nearly perfected its own gameplay in one go but was still relatively unknown to the mainstream public.

Then we get its sequel, which was clearly aimed at appealing to the mainstream and SC2 succeeded in that regard. But as the series went on, it kind of got worst, with its game play additions just hurting the balance SC once was known to have and a stronger reliance on character clones then the early Tekken games had.

[Tech_Romancer]

Most tourneys just banned them all. The few tourneys I went to, big and small, had setups on all the systems. Controller adapters were big business back then.

As for tiers, Hei was nigh broke, Spawn was eh, Link was crap. Personally, I never played Spawn, I can agree with Hei being too good, and I never played Link seriously so I don’t know.

One thing I never understood about SC1 ranking though was Cervy being 2nd worst. To this day, I still think that’s because the game never had a big tourney scene, because iGDR was over 50%+ damage. Unsafe or not, I don’t see how a character with that type of power is only better than Mina.

Whatever ranking you were looking at was wrong. Cerves, Xianghua, Maxi and Hwang were best characters in that game hands down. In fact, I have strong reason to place him first place because of his damage output and priority, despite his best tools loosing to sidestepping. A few of my friends that had a lot of Soul Edge experience even claim they hardly changed or tweaked him from that game to SC1 (where he was a boss) - that would make sense.

Mina is definitely the worst character in the game, though. I still find it funny how Kilik is overall better than her despite he is HER gameplay clone.

But honestly, that’s another thing I like about the game, the tiers seem pretty close together and everyone is more or less competitive. I’ve gotten back into the series on a more serious note and I am finding Seung Mina has some interesting tools, particularly her weapon ‘stances’ having cancel points for mindgames, her handful of “Unblockables” (not the “fiery” type, the ones where she hits two areas on the opponent simultaneously, like A~B), and creating some flowcharts. Man, wish a scene would develop for this game. My playlist.

Yes, it has fallen but truthfully, most fighting game series do eventually go through such rough patches. With Soul Calibur, it was a sequel to a pretty good but obscure fighting game (Soul Edge/Blade) and it nearly perfected its own gameplay in one go but was still relatively unknown to the mainstream public.

Then we get its sequel, which was clearly aimed at appealing to the mainstream and SC2 succeeded in that regard. But as the series went on, it kind of got worst, with its game play additions just hurting the balance SC once was known to have and a stronger reliance on character clones then the early Tekken games had.

This. And this doesn’t only apply to just SC, as you noted, other series have suffered in this regard.

[DA_GAME]

No one ever remembers Soul Blade :xeye:

I enjoy 3 and 4, but I’m not a high level player by far.

I remember it.It came out in late 1995.It really was the prequel storyline wise.It went like this in this order:

Soul Blade
Soul Calibur (THE best ever)
Soul Calibur 2
Soul Calibur 3
Soul Calibur 4

[E_C]

Soul Blade =/= Soul Calibur. The games really don’t play all that alike, which is why Soul Calibur was called what it was, instead of Soul Blade II.

They’re connected by storyline and the fact they are 3D weapon-based fighters, but aren’t officially the same series.

Earlier post I missed. It may not be official, but I’d call Soul Edge part of the Soul series.

As someone who got his 3D start with arcade Tekken 3 and arcade SC1, I see Tekken 1/2 the same as I view Soul Edge. To me, Soul Calibur was very much like Tekken 3, not just in the graphics engine used but also where the gameplay finally hit a stride incorporating real 3D gameplay and making the game much faster from the old games, but you can still see those obvious roots that started in those old games.

If Namco had called Tekken 3 “Iron Fist” instead, it would probably had the exact same “not apart of the series” effect on the fans they created by not calling Soul Calibur “Soul Edge II.”

But as the series went on, it kind of got worst, with its game play additions just hurting the balance SC once was known to have and a stronger reliance on character clones then the early Tekken games had.

I agree, but not with the stronger reliance on clones part. One of the biggest beefs I had with SC1, especially arcade SC1 and its TRCs, was how bad cloning was in that game. Way too many clones.

With SC2 and beyond, the existing clones got differentiated more and more, and the newer “clones” like Yunsung and Cass not really being clones as much just characters with very similar styles or animations to their predecessors.

The clones now are a very very far cry from SC1 Siegfried and Nightmare.

Whatever ranking you were looking at was wrong. Cerves, Xianghua, Maxi and Hwang were best characters in that game hands down. In fact, I have strong reason to place him first place because of his damage output and priority, despite his best tools loosing to sidestepping. A few of my friends that had a lot of Soul Edge experience even claim they hardly changed or tweaked him from that game to SC1 (where he was a boss) - that would make sense.

It was the Ranking Project from guardimpact.com, spearheaded by WCMaxi.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040402055930/guardimpact.com/skill/study.php?edition=ranking_project

I don’t know if this was made after iGDR was found or what, but I do vaguely remember a forum post with WCM saying that it didn’t make much of a difference. :xeye:

[Rhio2k]

Soul what?

You know…that thing you’ve got to get to in order to carry on for what you believed in from the very start…

[roninwarrior24]

I remember hearing that WCMaxi purposely ranked Cervy low because he didn’t want people exploiting his BS. I mean, seriously. 3B (launch)->B2=40% on normal hit, 50% on counter hit.

Anyways, why is SCIV looked down upon here? Not saying that it’s great or anything, but why does it have a crap reputation? Is there a detailed reason (i.e. one explaining gameplay things or stuff relating to the game in general), or is it just a “didn’t interest me” thing?

[Autocrat1]

Don’t forget HEIHACHI!!

Fixed for manliness!

EVEN KUMA IS STRONGER THAN YOU. :mad:

[E_C]

I remember hearing that WCMaxi purposely ranked Cervy low because he didn’t want people exploiting his BS.

Heh, for real? That would probably explain why in SC2, he put Cervy at tops (in theory) and repeatedly said that X was overrated.

Too bad it didn’t work…

[System_1]

I think the real problem with the SC series is that they’re slowly trying to appease the casual market by making it “easier” for them.

Me and my friends were going back and forth noticing the differences in the games one day. We knew we weren’t crazy that SCIV has become too much of a button masher. There’s a lot of things that you can’t get away with in SC1/2 that you can in SCIV. And that’s a damned shame since it’s the only 3D weapon-based fighter out there and Samsho just isn’t the same in 3D. (Hey Capcom, you listening to this?)

It’s funny how they sold SC1 on the XBLA before SCIV came out. Hmmm.

[Viache]

SC3 was pretty much bullshit everywhere. I’m not sure SC4 has brought the series back to grace or anything, but it’s a huge step up from that mess. A little bit of love from Namco on the balance issues and it could be a great game again.

It was pretty obviously rushed though. crow_winters pointed out that advancing/retreating guard is in the manual, but absent from the game. Good job Bamco.

Having some kind of coherent story and a reasonable single-player experience would be nice, but neither is a huge deal for me.

[TheDarkPhoenix]

The soul still burns

[Alucard20]

I’m just curious, but why is SC4 so shitty? I stopped playing it a month after I got it, but I might pick it back up.