Damaging moves =/= Damage output
“Damage Output” should also take into account the amount of risk involved in getting that damage, as well as the frequency with which you get that damage.
Strong command grabs don’t really contribute to a character’s damage output if those command grabs are too difficult to consistently rely on…or, if those grabs are extremely risky to connect.
All Hakan needs is three things…
Reg. Oil dive being cancel-able (if you hold it, press the punch button).
C.HP being an actual over head attack
a decent anti-air normal or special move.
That’s it.
Now as a far as the suggestions already posted, I am intrigued by the;
or
other then that, Hakan just needs the three things I stated.
you’re cracked. c.HP does nice damage, is fast, goes far, and is great for tick throws when oiled. No way should it be basically unblockable. it doesn’t even look like an overhead. if you wanna punish somebody for blocking, just grab them.
I believe he meant S.HP instead.
I also like Jarekov’s idea of making f.MP less unsafe (or may I dare say safe on block? That alone would really up his game). It’s a great move and it’s unfortunate Hakan can’t rely on it more, especially when oiled.
Also, I’m surprised by these claims that Hakan has low damage output… It’s somewhat true because it’s not easy to set up your opponent for damaging situations, but when it does happen Hakan does A LOT of damage. I honestly would never see Capcom actually increasing the damage on any of his moves, I think there’s much more important things to fix.
Hakans damage output is fine, if you hit a few comand grabs a few Hp pokes and one cr. mk xx hp slide you win, i dont see the problem with that, especially when you consider that slide has so many options after it to do good damage. Thats how it is with most grappling characters, you need to get a few SPDs in and a few pokes and maybe a couple combos.
Grappling characters win by outplaying there opponent, not whining and bitching about how they are low tier. And hakan is a grappler, he doesnt have huge damage combos that he hit confirms off of safe moves, and he sure as fuck doesnt have a fireball, therefore hes a grappling character.
Hakan can generate “a lot” of damage after successfully guessing right 2 or 3 times in a row. The problem is…guessing right 2 or 3 times in a row. All his specials risk 30-40 percent of his life if blocked/avoided/predicted. His normals are alright and stuff, but they all lose to blocking. He has no overhead. He has an inconsistent, character specific, awkward cross-up. Hakan has a hard time breaking blocks.
The only way to beat blocking and thereby create an actual mix-up is to use regular (breakable) throws or his command grabs. The minute you attempt a command grab, you’re risking 30-40%+ of your life on the spot.
Life gets better when you oil up, but that doesn’t change the fact that one neutral jump will destroy even an oiled up Hakan’s command grabs.
When I say his damage should be increased, I’m basically saying he should be forced to guess fewer times. Because, every time he guesses WRONG he loses more life than he usually stands to gain.
The difference being that other grapplers have range and speed on their grapples worth fearing. As a result of that fear, you get to land many more of those pokes and footsies as the opponent scrambles to get away from you. A player who’s familiar with Hakan isn’t going to scramble to get away from Hakan once they get in that special range where un-oiled Hakan has no consistent way of generating damage.
Lol, except this is a thread specifically designed for discussing Hakan’s deficiencies. That’s the entire purpose of this thread. It’s not whining. It’s…posting on topic.
People need to stop being so defensive about Hakan’s deficiencies. He has them. He is not a perfect character. True, he was designed to have the bare minimum and be a difficult, expert character. True, he’s not as bad as some people think.
But, still, even as an “expert character” he has deficiencies. The point of this thread is to discuss them.
he needs a cross up at the very least. give his L.P. un-oiled spd more priority for gods sake, he’s completely helpless if hes being rushed and cant oil up. no counter options. ex oil slide goes threw projectiles (armor?). give his ultra 2 more damage. the damage is completely pitiful.
I wanna see this. Not a buff in damage really, but make his riskier stuff worth it. I’m ok with the crap defense (makes him interesting!)
I think increasing the pitiful stun on his throws/specials would be a GREAT start. Make f+MP/HK a little bit safer on block (-3 maybe?), stuff like that.
f+MP is deceptively unsafe. Seriouly, it needs to be better. Hakan is not Zangief.
maybe he need something hard to land with hughe stun like zangiefs headbut… seriously he can not stun in anny normal match…
^ maybe a new move would help, but I’d seriously consider increasing the stun on the moves he already has. Normal throws @ 100 stun? That’s terrible. His slide followup does NO stun at all… wtf? Why is it so hard to dizzy with him? Doesn’t make any sense to me.
Safer f+MP/RH would be pimp too. They’re really good moves, but since they’re unsafe on block, you can hardly use them ever. 
If they did just the 2 things above, I think that would be enough right there… well, and more oil time, which is what I bet they’ll give him (if they bother to give him anything at all)
Start round with 20 seconds of oil, or give him +5 seconds on all versions of oil.
make his ddt cancelable.
a little more range on this un-oiled command grabs, ex-command grab hit invulnerable.
option to prone back of forwards during coward crouch, haha.
I dont know about st.hp being an overhead, that move is already a pretty good multi use poke. anti airs, ranged poke, etc. I think if they gave any move overhead properties it sould be his crouching back. Fierce punch. The one where he lunges and head butts you, this move is pretty worthless as is compared to his forward.mp which can be comboed off of for punishes.
Also, where is the article that says there will be a re-balance with the new arcade version of ssf4?
f+c.hp get extra range when DNC therfore its worls away from useless it is his longest range punish/Poke you can punish with it rufus c.HP after a focus as excample
but if his DDT would be Dash Cancable it would be GREAT WAY against wakeup opponents you should always charge it and then either use it or DASH forward and Piledriver 
or dash backl and punish anyway it would be a great punish for backdashs tooG
seriuosly i would love a dash cacable DDT or coward crouch cancable or any cancel at all…
Coward crouch cancelable into U2. Rofl
[LIST=1]
[]Slide invinsible to hit on initial frames, could be used as a good “get me the hell out of here”
[]Faster oil shower in general or make the oil last longer.
[/LIST]
Slide invinsible to hit on initial frames, could be used as a good “get me the hell out of here”<-- woul fitt EX-Slide
How about Hakan not getting hit on his feet when he slides. I mean it’s meant to go under all projectiles so that’s what it should do. I think if they make any balances to Hakan it should definitly be what I just suggested.
Agreed. I wouldn’t have to perfectly time my best tool to deal with fireballs when my opponent can happily abuse his/her projectile move.
Ibuki doesn’t have to time her slide at all, I don’t see why Hakan should.