Hakan Improvements for SSF4 AE?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Arcade release is comming with gamebalancing --> GREAT lets discuss Hakan improfement

Heres my Idea for possible Hakan Improvements (just a list im absolutely aware that if they add ALL it would be godlike im just thinking about good possible changes the designers could actual agree and dont change his play style much)

Speed up his Oil MK=as faast as LK; HK=as faast as MK; and LK=as faast as Jab/MP;
this way you could use LK Oil for Savecrossups with jumping HK and keep the setups for LK/MK Oils!

Give him HK-Oil at Matchstart (He use a goddamn Barrel full of it!! it would be logical)

EX-DDT make it like the LK-Super HITIMUNE!! (would not be too powerfull since its daman hard to land it anyway)

4a)
EX-OIL used it counters any non Projektile/focusbreaking hit with a nodamage Knockdown (the enemy just SLIP while try to hit him becouse he use special EX oil g) and speed it up to MK-Oil Speed

4b)
EX-Oil make it as faast as LK and Hitimune too (slightly shorter duration)

DDT Juggle Possibility after Air 2 Air Mp

  1. give Antiair F+LP (Oiled only) Juggle ability (thats one of my favourits!)

DDT Speedup or Hitboxchange so it actualy can be used on reaktion and not on Guessing/Setup

make his crossup a little easyer

  1. Give him a overhead as Excample OILED HP hits Overhead!

Give EX-Slide a good part Invulnerability on start so it can be used as a get off me move (not so much my favourite)

Let his DDT jump over crouching opponents so its saver on a wiff and a change of direktion too (thats one of my vaforits!!)

give Oiled F+MK the same possiblity like Abels Quickdash!

make one of his moves a good Antiair (OILED)!!

not a improvement generly but a realy good Help…
Change the Slide Motion to SRK motion for better Buffres and no more 360 in accident!! and Ultra2 change into Downx2+kkk not down x3…

change framedata on Oilrocket from 3frames to 1-2

I totaly not want Hitconfirmcombos / Jab/Short linking without Oil / a good antiair except EX Movechanges like suggestet

Hakan is so fun to use while he dont hafe this kind of stuff :wink:

2

Give him HK-Oil at Matchstart (He use a goddamn Barrel full of it!! it would be logical)
that is the minimum

3

EX Oil Dive hit invulnerable would be awesome.

I mean, Viper’s EX Sysmo is hit invulnerable and that allows her to combo into Ultra… .__.

I don’t think they’ll ever give him a real anti-air since that’s his biggest weakness and they probably would want to keep it that way.

That would be awesome to watch at least…

4

I say we change his super.

Instead of the current one, he throws his daughters at you.

5

More ways to land/combo into DDT and slightly longer durations for his oil ups are pretty much it for me. He’s already damned good in his current form now so the last thing I would want is to turn him into a borderline broken easy mode character that becomes extremely popular. (I’m looking at you Rufus)

6

I’d be happy with just an overhead and/or a decent cross up.

7

List is trash. I doubt they’ll do any major changes for the arcade version.

8

I’m no good at balancing, so my wishlist goes something like this:

  1. Give him an overhead, as it’s pretty easy to turtle against him without oil. I get that his gameplan is “Get oil on, get awesome” but the LK oil is tough to get on against people rushing you down. An overhead might make him too good, but I’d like to see it (or at least know that it was tested)

2)I agree, let his super take him over people so it’s not like 10,000 frames of punish on a whiff, on a super that is already pretty tough to use (I only use it now to counter moves that I can see coming). Reducing the distance he slides a bit when whiffed would keep it punishable even while going over, without being so laughably so.

On the topic of him starting the game off oiled, I don’t think this should happen. While as a Hakan player I would obviously love to see it, I think it would make Hakan way too good. Part of the strategy used when fighting him is in trying to find ways to stop the oil, and he’s looking for opportunities. Starting the game off oiled with anything over LK (and probably even that) would give Hakan really strong openers, and HK (and MK too in my opinion) would be straight broken. LK might work in that it lasts so short that a mistake on Hakan’s part means he probably wasted his opening advantage.

Rather than making him start off oiled (or making LK oil absolutely safe), I think Hakan just needs a little frame data tweaking on his normals so that he can better deal with frame traps that many characters can bring to bear against him while he’s unoiled, especially if they’re rushing him down. Hakan just needs a little bit to feel really solid to me, and all he REALLY needs in my opinion is some safer rushdown answers. He feels a bit like Vega in that he’s not supposed to get into the kind of situation where someone is right next to him, dropping blockstrings on him (and may Mork help you if they get the knockdown), but Hakan lacks the tools he needs to get out of it reliably, and needs really strong footsies to stop it from happening in the first place due to his lack of a strong ground-to-air AA move (n.HP, cr.HP, f.HP and Oil Slide are his best choices really). Hakan doesn’t need much, IMO. Most of the list is way too much and would make him laughably OP.

9

I think Hakan has 3 main issues: lack of hit confirms, bad command grabs, and difficulty oiling. I’m ok with him not having an overhead if his grabs are better, and I don’t think he needs to get better on defense (except that I’d give his ex spd more range).

Frame tweaks: st mp to cr mk combos, a few moves safer on block
–Standing mp has fewer recovery frames, like 8 instead of 10 so it’s +6 on hit
–Toward+mp has fewer recovery frames, like 11 instead of 14 so it’s -2 on block from point blank instead of -5
–Cr mk has fewer startup frames, like 5 instead of 7 (this is so st mp can link to cr mk without counter hit)
–Toward+hp has fewer recovery frames, like 13 instead of 16 so it’s -1 on block from point blank instead of -4 can link into cr mk when done as a deep meaty attack
–Toward+rh has fewer recovery frames, like 17 instead of 20 so it’s -2 on block from point blank instead of -5 (this is for getting in better)
–Toward+rh is cancelable, for crisco games and canceling into lk oil

Command grab tweaks: better range, less recovery
–Lp, mp, and hp unoiled spd ranges are 1.15 instead of .95 (still shorter than the shortest ranged punch grab for Gief, Hawk, and Honda, but much more usable)
–Ex unoiled spd range is 1.25 instead of .95 (still less range than the shortest punch grab among Gief, Hawk, and Honda)
–All spds and u1 have whiff animation length of 45 frames as opposed to 56 (for comparison, Gief’s have between 52-47 frames, Honda’s all have 41, Hawk’s have between 52 and 48, and Abel’s have between 51 and 39)
–A whiffed 360k either goes over crouching opponents or has 20 frames recovery instead of 66

Oil tweaks: showers take less time, oiliness lasts longer, and oils have different uses; lk shower quick enough to be good randomly, mk shower usable after all knockdowns, rh shower takes longest but has highest payoff if done to full, ex shower is shorter but pays off more immediately
–Lk oil shower lasts 35 frames instead of 53
–Mk oil shower lasts 50 frames instead of 74
–Hk oil shower lasts 80 frames instead of 88
–Ex oil shower lasts 60 frames instead of 88
–Lk oil: min 4sec (instead of 3), mid 5 (instead of 4), almost full 8 (instead of 5), full 10 (instead of 6)
–Mk oil: min 7 (instead of 4), mid 8 (instead of 5), almost full 10 (instead of 7), full 13 (instead of 9)
–Hk oil: min 9 (instead of 5), mid 11 (instead of 8), almost full 14 (instead of 10), full 20 (instead of 12)
–Ex oil: min 15 (instead of 6), mid 16 (instead of 9), almost full 17 (instead of 12), full 18

10

: st mp to cr mk hit combos
–Oiled backdash has a longer window in which it can be canceled with a normal attack

I Love those 2 idees but i assume the first would be overpowered since you could combo s.mp-s.lp-s.mp-
to cr mk Slide+BB hit combo

that would awsome deadly :wink:

11

I agree with metroxylon i don’t think they’ll do great changes for the arcade release. Anyway my wish list is:

  1. faster oil (i like what ultradavid wrote about oil)
  2. lesser frame to recovery from spd
  3. a sort of defensive move (perhaps this is my weak point and the most of hakan players feels comfortable with his defense and yes i know it is too much…)

Just my opinion but this game rewards too much a defensive gameplay.

12

I like the slight improvement on unoiled grabs. So frustrating when hakan’s arms literally go through the back of your opponent during the whiff animation. I am pretty regularly shocked when his 360p grab whiffs at different times.

I also don’t like getting thrown out of his command throw startup (especially ex). Pretty lame that he is the only character you can do that to.

13

Hakan doesn’t need much. Just some frame tweaks.

Probably make is shoulder charge towards+mp a bit safer, like a couple frames. Give him one command normal that’s somewhat safe to use so he can get in.

Allow Hakan to make something of his links. All it leads to is more links or a grab, all Hakan’s options to keep his opponents grounded are either stupidly risky or yield little damage.

Slightly increase damage on his grabs. The only one scary is the EX version of Oil Rocket. Oil dive should do a bit more damage because of it’s risk factor.

Oil should last longer. Startup should also be adjusted slightly.

He doesn’t need any new toys. A grappler’s grab is pretty much his overhead, it’s what your opponent pays for for holding down back all day. It would just be redundant. He doesn’t need any new anti-airs. The only thing I would change anti-air wise would be to make standing fierce have the dmg value of both hits if it’s used as an anti-air, only two hits against focus attacks (fuerte’s drop kick).

That’s all he needs.

14

The best thing they could do with Hakan right now is to buff his st.HP. Bigger hitbox, faster startup and slightly longer range for the first hit to combo into the second.

He’ll have a better anti-air, a better focus break, a better poke and a more consistent “I’m a worse grappler than Zangief so I need something effective but simple to keep the bastard from destroying me in about 20 seconds flat”.

They could keep him exactly the same in every other aspect and he’d still be looking a lot better with this change alone imo. Oh and it would eat Balrog rush punches for free.

15

Faster and longer lasting oil is my main want… Other than that, making his oil dive a little easier to set up and maybe a little safer would be nice

16

Actually I totally agree with this. If I whiff oil dive/super, it’d be great if it flew over crouching players so a heavy punish is far less likely and free. Dive so far hasn’t proven to be a move I want to hold out to see what the other player does when I’m unoiled, or using the non-EX versions. Pretty big gimmick.

17

Being able to cancel Oil Dive charge into coward crouch would be fun as hell…

18

Make oil dive an anti air grab. And cancel it by hitting punch.

19

I’d want jumping MK to be a true cross up.

Un-Oiled EX Oil Slide should go MP distance and Oiled should go HP distance
.
Be nice if his Oil Rocket had some throw invincibility or something, I always get thrown out of my Oil Rockets. Maybe it’s just my miscalculations.

Maybe make his jump a little higher when he’s oiled.

When oiled his jabs should link easier off each other or off a crouching lk.

20

you can get thrown out of the vast majority of command throws in this game (a notable exception being abel’s TT). i can’t count the number of times it’s happened to me as playing as honda or makoto.