Haggar UMVC3 Wishlist

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

Since Haggar seemed to only get nerfs in the comic-con build, I think it would be a nice idea to put forth all the ideas/changes that people would like to see in UMVC3. It would probably me more convenient for Capcom and more productive for us to have it all in one place. I doubt this thread will ultimately change anything, but hope springs eternal right? If there is interest for this I’ll update the first post with the best ideas people come up with and agree upon.

General Problems
-Haggar is a wrestler and his signature throws are among the worst command throws in the game
-Haggar’s normals are not very good aside from pipe and headbutt
-Haggar’s mixup is weak because his tick throws are very weak and his anti-jump moves (lows, Hoodlum H, air throw) are slow, have poor reach, or too much lag to be useful
-Pushblocking pretty much stops Haggar from doing anything too easily
-Haggar needs better tools for approaching vs keepaway characters and punishing runaway
-Many moves feel useless outside of combos, which makes him more 1-dimensional than he should be
-DHC’ing into Haggar isn’t very useful or practical

2

My Ideas/Wishlist
-Rapid-Fire Fist has Hyper Armor and never whiffs the first time it’s used in a combo
-Giant Haggar Press has startup invincibility while jumping up and less recovery
-Hyper Haggar Slam has more range and does 600k
-Wild Swing has 1 hit of armor, ground bounces, and changes directions when facing backwards (why doesn’t it auto-correct like Backdrop?)
-Violent Axe destroys projectiles
-Hoodlum Launcher H recovers in the air with enough time to attack before landing
-Piledriver range/damage buff, 0 startup frames, more active frames, and forces them to stand up (why make it HCB when other command grabs are easier to do and better?)
-Backdrop range/damage buff, recovers faster, and ground bounces. L, M, and H versions have different recovery on whiff so you can change how long you spend floating in midair
-L and Crouching L have less startup
-Crouching M pulls them in on block and has more reach
-Crouching H has smaller hurtbox and gets invincible slightly earlier
-Ground pipe does chip damage
-Air M has bigger hitbox (why can it be crouched under? whiffing it in air combos is lame too)
-Air S has less startup (why use it instead of pipe?)

3

Gotta agree with all of this.Nothing too over the top, just some sensible thought right here.

Well done.

4

honestly id be happy with a way to deal with projectiles and piledriver/backdrop causing ground bounce or being able to otg from it. being able to block after a wiffed hodlum launcher h would be nice too

5

One tiny thing to add would be to make hoodlum H’s range in the air better – I’ve predictively thrown it out and people jump back into it, but don’t get grabbed… and of course it’s punishable. Like you said, his specials are only good within combos or resets, and without having good options to get in/open up they’re largely useless.

6

Pipe throw.

7

600K might be a little over the top. While we don’t know how much XFactor got nerfed in UMvC3, if it followed the same values right now that would one shot half the cast with XF1, and everyone with XF3.

8

XFC > level 3 grab is probably the most overrated tactic people are afraid of. It is incredibly easy to avoid (everything cancels into everything else in this game) and by the time you finish the grab XF1 is already gone. If XF doesn’t last as long and is even weaker, there shouldn’t really be any problem with it. I doubt there is a single character in the game that can’t escape from it and because X-Factor pauses the game it’s pretty easy to react to.

If the Cr.H otg thing stays, then I can see it doing less damage. At the very least it should be the strongest level 3 in the game. I remember FAB being stronger than raging demon in like every game with Zangief and Akuma.

9

600k is not too much. Judging by the cinematic animation, you’d think it’d hurt alot more to get piledriven from 3 different angles into the pavement. With XF3, Alot of characters should die just from the hyper swinging.

10

Please god put these in: the main stuff I want, basically repeating Big O but in my opinion it can’t be repeated enough.

  1. Body Splash needs to be projectile invincible and there should be different ranges depending on what buttons are used to activate it, much like Skrull’s level 3.
  2. C. L is 8 frame startup and L is 7 frame in vanilla right? it should be 6 and 5 at least that’s not asking too much, not like I’m asking for Ammy speed normals.
  3. No character should be able to flip out of the last hit of the Abortion punch hyper.
  4. Piledriver/Back Drop should do way more damage and have more range if I can’t do anything to follow it up with.

Icing on the cake: stuff that would be nice, can never be too good in Mahvel.

  1. 1 hit of armor on all the Violent Axes.
  2. full recovery in the air at the peak of Hoodlum Launcher H when whiff.
  3. faster startup on Hoodlum Launcher M.
  4. replace current voice actors with the final fight one lol.
11
  1. Pipe can be thrown (Pipe beam??:))
  2. St. L and Cr.L with less start-up frames (so many times, you can’t do anything against fast and rushdown characters, especially when you run out of assists)
  3. Better piledriver and easily connectible air piledriver (almost useless)
  4. More damage to Haggar’s piledrivers and grabs
  5. Connectible Level 3 (almost useless)
  6. Armor frames to Haggar’s Violent Axe 3 versions and stand M and stand H (just like Hulk)
    7.OTG assist instead of non used Violent Axe and Ground Pipe assists (is there anybody on this planets using them?)
  7. Bigger hitbox for J. M (whiffs a lot)
  8. Don’t add a ground bounce to Haggar’s ground pipe!!

Haggar definitely must be buffed to have a chance to kill hordes of Ammy and Mag b…es!!

12

Seth is to Haggar as AE is to UMvC3. A few WTF nerfs and no buffs to speak of sofar. Honestly I agree with a lot of the bonuses you guys are putting here even though I never use him. He needs some armor of some sort on maybe his launcher or violent axe. To balance it make his assist less derp like Tron’s assist will be and we have a perfect haggar.

13

Things Haggar should have in UMvC3;

Pipe attacks should do chip damage
Piledriver range should be increased, but not by much; new animation for air Piledriver (why, you say?)
Hoodlum Launcher should have a Backdrop option (his FF regular throw, not much damage but would give position options for assists or combos/Air Hoodlum Launcher = Sky High backdrop option)
Lariat should not give damage when performed. (you want to beam from across the screen all day? Fine; I’ll lariat from across the screen as well. Let’s see who wins the chicken battle.) Only 1/3 damage as an assist if it remains invincible.

Everything else is fine as it is.

14

More range on piledriver. Ground bounce after piledriver is a great idea actually and would make him much scarier up close. if you have this then more people would feel the need to jump when he’s close which could lead to air throws/mixups. maybe less startup on heavy launcher then too, it’s a bit much right now
Fix rapid-fire fist
Some increased utility for haggar press would be greatly appreciated. If you could modify distance, that would be fantastic and more useful like gamma crush

these alone would change things quite a bit. he could probably still use a bit more mobility however. I agree that jumping medium hitbox could be looked at. maybe bit faster startup on level 3. I dont’ mind standing pipe groundbounce too much. they made crouching heavy otg? that’s a pretty big deal. then a bit faster startup on jab and he seems mostly fixed. they’re apparently nerfing lariat assist quite a bit. I’m assuming they’re adding lots of move property improvements, otherwise I’m just confused. we’ll see

15

Except Seth is probably better in AE then he ever was.

16

Just cuz Poongko can do it don’t mean we can.

17

Pipe throw with a ground/wall bounce on hit, or, to keep the final fight theme, throw a knife that causes crumple instead.

18

Increased Walk Speed. Please.

Speed up L and crouching L
crM, looking at what it looks like should pull in on hit or block.
hitbox improvements to normals, whiffing M in an air combo is odd. Given how slow they are, that range should be better.

Counter Hit headbutt induces dazed animation on people knocked out of the air when they stand up.

Hoodlum M and H startup faster. Allow Haggar to do something on whiffed Hoodlum H

The first time Rapid Fire Fists is used in a combo the opponent should never bounce out.
Utilizing any version of Rapid Fire Fists counts as 1 hit for the purpose of Hit stun decay

Violent Axe L, 1 hit armor.
Violent Axe M and H projectile invincible until it becomes active
make Violent Axe H faster and travel farther to help him against Pushblock abuse.

Airthrow range increase.

ALL Haggar Command Grabs: 0-1 frame, Increased range
Piledriver causes ground bounce, allowing enough time for a Hoodlum L for a full on punish.
Wild Swing, 1 hit armor. There’s your anti-air. Or spin the stick like crazy to get the damage boost.
If it’s true that crH OTGs now, leave Sky High Backdrop as is, Haggar can land a crH OTG and go into Violent L, L S/Hoodlum L for full punish.

Level 3 does 650k

If they don’t allow combo after Command grabs allow more calling assists during command grabs for easier situations to get combos from things like Chris’ landmine, Deadpool/Wesker’s OTG assists and the like.

Oddities:
H causes ground bounce. This move needs tweaking but I’m not sure what to do with it. Perhaps have it soft knockdown to allow mixups/frame traps with Hoodlum Launchers?

When Haggar Lariats, randomly have the old school FF REEARGGH!! (think SF2 red fireball)

Alternate costume: Slam Masters outfit. or FF 3 outfit complete with ponytail?

Steel Pipe can randomly be, Katana, 2x4, Steel Chair

Haggar can level 3 Galactus.

Win quotes:
Something about piledrivers.
Something about DAT PIPE
vs Dante: Starving? Break some barrels, you’ll find some turkeys and be full in no time.
Vs Hulk: You’re the strongest there is? Sorry, never got the memo.
Prefight vs Phoenix Wright: Actions speak Louder then words.
Winquote vs Hawkeye: You had a second chance, how about showing a friend of mine what that means?
Prefight Vs Taskmaster: You may have arrows, a sword, and a Gun. But I have a pipe.
Winquote vs Taskmaster: You can’t copy Burning Vigor.
Prefight vs Iron Man: You ever consider running for office? I need a running mate…
Prefight vs Villians: I’m going to personally punch crime in the face…starting with you.
Winquote vs Dark Phoenix: Can’t control it? Well you’re gonna or you’ll see me again.
Prefight vs Galactus: Devour the Earth? Not on my watch.
Winquote vs Galactus: Ultimate Nullifier? You’re looking at him.

Ending: Haggar piledrives Galactus. somewhere. I don’t care where Galactus lands, I just want to see Haggar piledrive Galactus. Just this PLEASE and I’ll be happy.

Back throw and Modified Level 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnsppld1uM&feature=related

19

Maybe Hauzer will be in the game and Haggar can level 3 him. That’d be pretty amazing <3

20

ok I refer to my team of Haggar on point with Doom assist as ‘Zangief with a fireball’ alot which made me start thinking of the move ‘Banishing flat/green hand’ as it is the closest thing Zangief has to a fireball.

That then got me thinking, would it be too insane to give Haggar a green hand style move?Thinking about it I would rather they give Haggar some projectile armour on Violent axe actually. It would be really cool if they gave his violent Axe different properties. Maybe they could make his L version deflect projectiles? I mean its not too far out there considering he almost makes a volleying motion as if he is batting something back when he does it.

Violent Axe L=deflects any durability projectiles back

Violent Axe M=Has 1 point of armour against normal attacks

Violent Axe H=Absorbs high durability projectiles, blowing right through them.