Yeah I’m talking 400k no assist no supers, works from anywhere.
Ideally I’d like it to be cr. M, cr. H, S, j. M, H smash, st. M, S, j. H (up), H smash, st. M, S, j. M, j. H, j. H (up), L or M smash
or even start it with one rep of the jump cancel loop
Well I got my above combo to work and got 500k no super off IM unibeama nd dorm’s black hole from midscreen anyways for solo combo I’ve tried learning. cr. M, cr. H, S, j. M, H smash, st. M c.H jump cancel j.M j. H h. up H land into something but they always fall out after the jump cancel loop. Perhaps if I did like j.m j.H medium mystic smash I could launch them but who knows shuma’s mediums have so little hitstun.
Edit: First try I just got the combo to work on trish and Hulk to do that combo above into launcher after the jump cancel loop. Of course still gotta try zero and shit. Damage comes out to be about 440k no super.
Edit 2: Ok so timing on that is a bit tight on small characters cause if the time from s.M to c.H is long they get pushed away to far for j.up.H. That being said if you got the balls to use it, you can do st. M c. H TK medium mystic smash st.M S. Though I don’t feel comfortable using TK smashes in combos for competitive play I sometimes get them when doing jump cancel loops so know what to do when it happens is nice.
Edit 3: I start all combo’s off shuma’s j.M since that adds a little extra hit stun and I want to make sure my combo works off air attacks so no worries there.
Edit 4: Confirmed to work on zero and Joe pretty easily. Though I’ve found if I start with straight from c.M its actually harder to do the combo on him than if I start with air mystic smash or j.M. The extra htistun makes him stay lower during the jump cancel loop.
So since P-Gorath got my reworking some stuff with shuma I decided to record me fiddling around with some stuff today. Now I don’t have video capture and video was not in correct format so its been converted twice. Long story short its super shitty quality and as I made this in like 10 minutes I didn’t feel like adding music or editing sound. I recommend turning down sound as its just game sound. Btw these are not optimized but merely practical combos, a couple of these are actually my BnB’s that I use in tournie/competitive play. Sidenote anytime i do a c.H loop you can do a TK medium mystic smash instead of j.mhuh. I’m also going to list damages since its unreadable.
Viewtiful Joe: 443k
Wesker: 440k pre akuma, 605k after super
Sent: about 500k then 560-600k range off reset
IM 1 and 2: 420ksh
IM 3: 510k Can combo into super if you get it just right
Wesker 2: 1100k lvl 3 xfactor
Mags: 820k
[media=youtube]0n4pb_-GhjM&feature=youtube_gdata[/media]
P.S. I use a madcatz d-pad and the wire is all torn up so sometimes it doesn’t jump to the right (or block low to the left) The point being that these combos are available to anyone if I can do these thumb only.
I reckon you could get a bit more out of that first combo by sticking a mystic stare in there at some point, but I’m not sure just where.
One thing I don’t see people doing much of is buffering mystic stare after a standing H. You should get enough hitpause to be able to buffer it properly I’d think.
I wish I could test some shuma, but I’m holding off buying this game until SE comes out.
Well after the ground loop if you use any attack other than S they pop out of the combo. Also you can’t connect standing Heavy to mystic stare without a c.H or assist inbetween. I also dislike using mystic stares in combo because the windows are tight on them for tournie play, though the assist one with mystic stare gives you forever to land and combo after.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and now definitely feel that shuma is tied with the worst characters in the game…and it’s not even close.
More tomorrow.
I wouldn’t say the worst but he is low tier deffinently. Honestly the only reason to keep shuma around is to make wolvie trickier. I feel he is better than some characters like Arthur/Chris/Hulk. That being said I don’t see shuma evolving… Honestly I think I’ve explored just about every possible thing shuma can do combo/mix-up/approach wise. Honestly its his approachs that are the weakest considering he can’t zone. Tack on low damage it makes him low tier. He also has several bad matchups and unfortunently the more your opponent knows shuma the less effective he is. Strong advance gaurd bait and decent instant overheads with assists, but lots of the cast has these same tools.
Btw I’ve had two people ask me if I’m you online P. Gorath. Its prolly because our wolvie/shuma combos are so similiar, I usually watch wensday night fights. I can actually do well against top players with that combo like viscant and noel brown, but shuma on point is not strong against a good defence from good players. It makes me wonder if I could do just as well with IM assist instead but I love shuma =\
Hey Guys. ShumaLover69 here. I enjoyed playing him, but i took him off my team for a while. Chemistry didn’t work right. Is there a particular post or page that has the properties of his moves and useful information similar to any of the character official threads? Or should i check the combo thread? thanks
No, he is the worst or tied. It’s just that MvC3 is actually pretty balanced, so even the worst have good stuff about them (ie I would take any of the mvc3 bottom over the mvc2 bottom).
Yes, this is the big dillemna and the reason why I will probably keep him on some team. The only other wolverine assist I really like is Iron Man beam but I gave IM a fair shake and he just isn’t my style of play.
Whoa whoa whoaaa. Chris is ten times the character Shuma is. Chris is a fuckin beast who is actually good at certain things and has some really good match-ups. You shouldn’t even use Shuma and Chris in the same sentence.
I also think Hulk is better than Shuma, as he can take out two characters on reaction almost instantly. When I say tied for the worst I’m think more Felicia, maybe Thor, maybe hsien-ko, maybe arthur.
This is what worries me. Shuma has to evolve, specifically in the area of approach and mix-ups. I mean, what other character is so terrible at approach AND so terrible at zone? Capcom obviously thought they were giving him good approach tools (the strategy guide has laughable tips in this regard) when in fact none of them work. Also 1 vs 1 shuma has practically no good match-ups because of this aforementioned problem.
That’s funny. I didn’t know you were using my team. I get people online asking if I’m P. Gorath, when they see my name is P. Gorath and I’m using Joe/Wolvie/Shuma.
Well I use Wolvie/shuma/akuma. Lots of tricks with akuma assist like jump instant S for overhead during tatsu , also off a berzerk slash mystic ray opener I can get 820k starting with 2/3 of a bar no x-factor etc. I think people are just shocked to see someone decent with Shuma. That and james chen says you two are the only decent shuma players in the US. Its not my fault i live 9 hours away from any major scene =\ Although the only tournie i went to PowerUp i did really well inculding some perfects on some well known players. I’ve been playing Viscant online alot lately, i think his phoenix team is weak but good god his Storm/morrigan/tron team rapes me.
Honestly my biggest issue with trying to evolve shuma is that he is so f’n slow. I mean good god its annoying you can’t even block hulks invis super and dash punish. I mean i love the j.m as approach attack because if they are trying to advance gaurd cancel it into a air mystic smash(heavy works best if distance is right) for a free punish, if they don’t then go for a low or back into air type of scenario. My biggest issue is trying to get close enough to do this, especially against faster characters like magneto’s just run away disrupter, if i mystic smash the disrupter they just super or just jump air grab.
I think Hulk is bad and actually i think shuma has same good 1v1 matchups. for instance I feel like i can easily walk over any of the good assist characters like sent/tron/haggar/doom, though shuma lacks the damage I feel like i should never get opened up by these character. For instance you can basically c.M or c.H every single thing haggar does for free all game, better yet just c.M spam and if he jumps for pipe just c.H gg. Against Tron just ground S anytime she approaches and beat out her stupid air H. This being said I think shuma is at a major disadvantage in any 1 v 2, even worse than you would expect from a 1 v 2. This is prolly do to the fact he has no high low/left right mixups solo and can’t just super an assist into x-factor like so many other chars.
Yeah that’s a better wolvie/shuma team than either of mine. I just refuse to put akuma on a wolverine team. Problem with my joe team is that shuma is just not a good anchor, for the reasons you pointed out. He is only effective during lvl 3 xfc and even then it’s really hard to take out more than two characters, as taking out the second one with chaos dimension eats up so much of your xfc because of the long ass animation. And then chances are one of their 3 characters will be good at running away from him. I basically agree with those 1 v 1 match-ups, but then everyone is good 1 v 1 against Haggar. I disagree that Doom is a good match-up. Doom can keep him out all day long for free.
Well shuma can just dash/duck doom plasma beams to approach. If you get him doing finger lasers you can just mystic stare through them. In the air doom can’t do much to shuma that isn’t weak to airgrabs so I like the matchup myself. I also love the shuma vs wesker matchup but I think its because I have so much wesker practice its crazy.
I feel you on wolvie/akuma I didn’t want to do it myself. Honestly I wanted to run wolvie/spencer/shuma but I felt forced to use lvl 2 x-factor with spencer that and my team was very weak to phoenix teams. I think I could get the same type of team with Wolvie/shuma/dorm or something though i’m working on an anti haggar team with 3 different characters because I can’t make another tournie for like 6 months so figured I should branch out since I have lots of time.
What about Wolvie/Shuma/Spencer? I was thinking that would be a decent team, except I don’t think Shuma gains much from any of Spencer’s assists
Actually if you see the combo from my video above against IM with akuma assist, you can do the same combo with all 3 of spencer’s assists. Though to run this team you need to run slant shot assist so that you can get a strong combo off Wolvie’s grabs and hopefully shuma’s though i’ve never tried it. It does give you a strong DHC out of shuma, but I still see the team being very weak to Phoenix, though overall that prolly is a stronger formation.
Edition instead of new post:
I’ve been trying to in corporate this kind of new tech i guess since I’ve never seen anyone else talk about it. The concept is very simple hold back (or downback) and when someone like dante teleports behind you just hit l, m, or H and you will get a mystic stare. It counts you as chraging back and when the directions switch your back becomes forward so it completes the charge motion. Now this does allow for free combos on characters like phoenix/dante/wesker etc, heck you can even just spam the light button and it will do an auto correctect mystic stare when they teleport.
Now I’ve known about this for like 3 weeks or so, but just recently I realized this trick would also work if someone is simply crossing you up, so should work against Berzerker slash or someone just jumping over you for cross ups like dantes. Since he is the only character with a charge move that hits high enough to hit air opponents it could be some shuma only tech. Outside of dante I’ve never tried using it, but its something to think about if you want something new to try with shuma.
I have a feeling Capcom didn’t put a whole lot of time into planning Shuma and that he was added late as a “Yeah, that character sounds cool. Throw him in.” kind of decision like Hsien-Ko, much to my chagrin.
I agree Shuma’s biggest problem is his approach. But I also believe that was intentional. It’d be fitting for him to have a teleport and help him out a ton, or at least even just faster movement options, but the problem with that is it could lead to the Shuma player popping Chaos Dimension, then getting close for an easy unblockable (yes, X-23 has one too, but hers is harder to pull off). It’s probably also the reason Mystic Smash has such crap priority. Maybe if he had a teleport that could be punished more easily than others, like a sped-up version of what he does during CD (crawl into a portal, crawl out)?
Now as to why he has to pose after his throws and hypers apart form “lolisfunni,” I don’t know. I’m hoping that Seth talks a bit about what they intended for our tentacled friend and Hsien-Ko in an interview like he has for some other characters, at the very least. He said he’d show off stuff the community apparently hasn’t found yet for Doom and some other characters sometime, probably at E3 or Comic-Con. At the most, I want some buffs.
I don’t really think Shuma is bottom tier, although I guess I’m not as good as the ones saying he is lol. His damage is pretty decent, he has several quick overheads, invincibility frames on his supers, chaos dimension is good, a beastly assist, and a lot of awesome normals with high priority. His combos are pretty iffy consistency wise and he is pretty slow, but I think we can get around those problems in the future. My biggest complaints are how useless ground mystic smashes/mystic ray L are and the poses for command grab/ray super.
I’ve noticed that his J. H (maybe J. L too) has a slight float to it if you do it when you are falling. I was always bothered by the weird “hitstun” on his J. H and how it never seemed to combo into anything unless done really close to the ground so I looked into it more closely. If you cancel it into J. Up H you land a lot faster and can combo into your ground moves from much higher. J. Up H doesn’t have the weird float property (or it makes you fall faster than normal) so that fixed the problem. I land a lot of stray J. H sometimes so this ups his damage potential a lot.
I’ve also been in the lab cooking up a new combo that seems to have a lot of potential and is much more assist friendly. I’ve gotten over 600k meterless so far with lariat assist or purifiction assist. Hopefully I can figure out how to work in both in the same combo. It works anywhere but is pretty hard to time in a few parts. I’m sure dark hole assist would be better and easier, but I like how it lets Haggar otg and combo off his grabs.
:d:
,:d:h:,:s:,:u::h:, Smash :h:,,:d:,:d::h:, Stare :l:,:s:,,,:h:,:u::h:, Smash :h:/,:h:+:a1:,:s:,:h:,( :s:, :a2: Ray ,:s:,:u::h:)
The parenthesis is where I usually drop the combo and is assumed to be possible (I have gotten to there without the assist before in the corner). If it can be done that is like 720+k meterless. My execution isn’t that great so hopefully it does work and you guys can get it to work. The eyeballs explode right after the air mystic smash and they give you plenty of time to set up for w/e assist you have.
Yeah that combo isn’t really practical at all. Getting two reps of up + H into H ball just isn’t going to happen consistently when you have to do it against a variety of characters and from a variety of setups. Also the entire cast can do huge combos with lariat and purification assists, so that’s not really a mark in shuma’s favor.
Shuma’s damage is terrible - his bnb’s struggle to break 400, and chaos dimension no longer has the “wow factor” of dealing high damage (non-xfc CD damage without the bite is pitiful, yet it’s the after-the-bite properties that everyone points to in order to make the case that CD is so good). His supremely slow specials also means he is absolutely no threat to dish out chip damage, except for rapid fire xfc’d mystic smashes. Invincibility frames on his supers (which almost everyone has and does better) are worthless as the start-up is too slow to really catch anything, and chaos dimension probably isn’t even in the top 3 of level 3’s in the game (the undisputed #1 being gravity squeeze).
What Shuma really needs is a double air dash like V. Joe has, or a fast air dash with abnormal properties, like skrull or chun li. If air S was much better it could have helped solve some problems too.
Here is my match with Dios X from last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ZTwr36bRU
Dios plays a very unorthodox style for mvc3 that is very zone-heavy. Even without Shuma, my team has trouble with agressive zoning. As you see in the first match, once it is down to shuma vs. a character plus assists, the game is over (I really should have won that first game, but dios plays me a lot and knows what to do against my team, and I activated xfc at a bad time and activated chaos dimension at a worse time, and you can’t make those two mistakes). The second game also comes down to shuma vs. the cast, and you see how difficult it is trying to get any offense going when everything you do is susceptible to air throw (since H isn’t a good air to air move).
Hmm I see what you mean about chasing someone down who just runs away all day. Shuma’s aerial approach is susceptible to air throws, but I think with more patience and good wavedashing it won’t be as crippling. J. L is a very fast air to air normal with good reach that can stop them from getting close enough to air throw you. I also think Shuma can be pretty tough to catch himself should you feel like running away. Canceling air back dashes with L right away makes you go pretty far and his normals with really high reach and priority can keep them out. If his forward dash behaved the same way he’d be twice as good, but his useless moves bother me more personally.
I stopped trying to land chaos dimension without some kind of support since I would fail half the time and realized that 3 stare supers do more damage in chip anyway. If they mash pushblock then they might dash into the rest of it due to the random nature of the move. The invincibility on stare is nice for DHC’s and predictable approaches. The invincibility of the ray super counters a few things on reaction. Not the greatest thing ever, but still somewhat useful imo.
I don’t really think his bnb struggles to get 400k. Reaching 500k meterless is pretty doable (even without assists) and I get it right like 75% of the time even though my execution is meh (and my controller is crap). I just said his damage is pretty decent and that chaos dimension is good (Arthur’s lvl 3 is the best btw). Only his more damaging combos are iffy.
Shuma struggles to do 500k BnB in real situations. I can do 500k in training mode and that is pretty pointless. First off if your combo requires you to start with c.m or anything of that nature it is unrealistic, you should assume your combo is starting from some assist or overhead etc that does about 5-10 hits. Also shuma’s wavedash isn’t faster than his normal dash so people really shouldn’t be using it.
Shuma’s j.l is terrible, his only good aerial in my opinion is j.M. Shuma has a decent air grab, but you are basically forced to use air mystic smashes to approach meaning you can’t air grab. To open people up without an assist you basically need to rotate between j.M j.M c.l c.M and j.M (j.M) H air mystic smash. The first one is very good and based on timing you can do 2-4 overheads messing with people who try and count hits, the second is to hit people who try and advance gaurd aerials or force a left/right mixup and high low mix up as it brings them out of ultimate gaurd. The problem is getting in the range for this.
Btw P. Gorath, I would have liked to of seen a XF hyper mystic smash follow up on that combo at the end. You can link hyper mystic smashes with XF from full screen pretty reliably.
Hey there gents.
Well after taking some major time off from MvC3 due to school (and testing out the new Mortal Kombat game), it seems like not a whole lot has been discovered with Shuma anymore than from his initial loops and whatnot? I’ve been scanning back and forth here to see if anybody has nailed down the “end all” of Shuma’s practical BNB combos, and it seems like there are some conflicting opinions as to what is his best BNB?
I’ve spent probably 3 hours in Training Mode over the last 2 days just messing with Shuma again. I gotta say, he just seems ridiculously hindered compared to the rest of the cast (majority of them at least) when it comes down to it. At one point I was sitting there trying to connect a combo for a measly 450k damage…then instantly had flashbacks to facing Dante and Sent players that can do EASY crap for a ton of damage with little to no execution needed. I guess you can say that I unfortunately kinda have a bad taste in my mouth with Shuma for this reason. Even MODOK has now been revealed to be BEASTLY with some execution, so I guess my question is why mess with a technical and execution heavy character like Shuma when the payoff isn’t nearly as good as the majority of the cast? I suppose I could just be a fanboy, because after all Shuma IS my favorite character and has been, but there comes a point where I do want to win, lol.
So, do we have a unanimous “best” mid-screen BNB that’s practical for Shuma at this point?
…and for what it’s worth, the new Mortal Kombat is pretty terrible IMO. Still no diverse character archetypes (everybody has the same speed roughly, same size, same basic damage, same normal moves, etc.), still no cross-ups, still the horrendous dial-a-combo system, and still special move spammy. Somehow, the game does manage to be quite a bit fun at times, but from a technical standpoint as a fighting game, it’s pretty much rubbish.