So use LK tatsu in the neutral game while Honda’s charging and goes for normal headbutts…is that safe to react to though? Can’t say I’ve tried. I’ve probably tried utra 1. What about reacting with TK lp air grab?
Also, can’t Honda bait your light tatsu by doing a light headbutt in the range of a medium/heavy one…causing you to whiff and we know what happens then.
Here’s the thing, you have a sound cue on which headbutt they are doing, for english and japanese. Japanese is a bit easier to differentiate on. TK grabs don’t work at all, you;d have to already be on the descent to actually grab the move. Is it safe yes, Honda won’t you at all even on the LK tatsu startup, similar to how a projectile or moves will projectile properties won’t hit you out of MK tatsu.
Could it be unsafe… not quite depending on your reaction. Guy’s LK tatsu is about 44 frames in total, Honda’s LP Headbutt is 57 frames.
LP headbutt is easy to spot because there’s a delay before he goes horizontal. But I have a bit of trouble telling the difference between MP and HP versions. This was only a problem before I knew LK tatsu worked, because run slide punish would get blocked and I’d be screwed if I read it as the wrong version. Sticking to LK tatsu on reaction and EX hozanto punish on block is the safest option, so I just stick with that now.
Ex Headbut Whiff: Forward Throw, Forward Jump and Whiff Normal Izuna Drop, Forward Jump Cross-up Mk will cause Honda’s wake-up ex headbut to whiff behind Guy (out of the corner). Guy’s normal forward throw set-up will typically get beat by Honda’s wake-up ex headbut. It may be possible that Honda can delay his headbut against Guy’s jump-in.
Block String Whiff Punish: Example 1; crouching short 3x, TC into instant Run Stop, instantly whiff crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. Example 2; crMp, crouching short, TC into instant Run Stop, instantly whiff crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. The crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto can beat Honda’s Ex Head Ram, Ex Command Grab and whiff against Sumo Smash if Honda reverse as soon as he gets out of block stun. ‘The reversal sign should appear’.
Block String Whiff Punish against Low Head Ram: Example 1; crHp, stHp or stHk. Example 2; crHp, stMp buffered into Low Hozanto (then quicly hold back to block).
cr. short isn’t a true block string, so he can headbutt you there. And in my experience, good Hondas will be ready to headbutt any button presses after a run stop. I thought I liked to live dangerously with Guy, but those situations all sound very risky and blowuppable lol
Only EX, LP headbutt loses to lows… Also you do EX tatsus after LP Hozanto >>;;
lol I do indeed, but not as often as you might think. You just happened to see me do it twice in one round against one of the best Cammys in Europe. And what happened? They both hit him and I won the game. Regardless of whether ‘in theory’ it’s the right thing to do or not, I went for it because I thought it would work…and it did. One of the great ironys of high level play is that if your opponent thinks you will do something smart or WON’T do something because it’s stupid, the stupid thing can often be the best option to go for. You see this all the time with shotos (Daigo, Tokido, Infiltration, Bonchan, Momochi, etc. included) just throwing out YOLO DPs when they don’t have the meter to FADC it. Seeing as Guy doesn’t have the option to FADC EX tatsu, I figure my risk is about on par with this. Sometimes from the things that you say, I feel like you prefer playing Theory Fighter to Street Fighter!
That kinda makes you hypocritical then to what IROC posted, given he is aware of the risky business you stated it’s a risk that he shouldn’t do, yet you’re willing to EX Tatsu after being only -1 or -2 in some cases so how is this any different? You’re risking frame gaps to do pressure at the risk of possibly getting LP headbutt if he decides do it against TC or EX Headbutt. While LP headbutt only loses to lows you can switch around that blockstring with cr.mk instead of TC, you’ll lose to EX headbutt as Honda likely won’t go for LP HB unless he wanted to get knocked down, he could however go for buttslam as a surprise for you. In this case you’re only risking small damage and a neutral game being established if he uses Headbutt, while Buttslam gives Honda an opportunity for gimmicks or pressure. That’s almost the same as the risk for you and EX tatsu, if they block you’re eating damage and a setup to follow, unless they choose to use Raw Ultra. I play both Theory Fighter and Street Fighter, they go hand and hand quite well since I aim to analyze a player full on, full out.
Technically you can use crLp, crLp, crLp, Ninja Sickle to beat out an Ex Head Ram reversal, but Ninja Sickle only hits once (doing little damage) and doesn’t cause a juggle state.
Block String Whiff Punish 2: 1). Close Target Combo ~ Low Hozanto, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. You can use up to 2 crLp or crLk hit-confirms. 2). Medium Hozanto, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. 3). Close crMk, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. 4). Far stMk, stHk. ‘As a reminder these are against a “reversal” Ex Head Ram’.
Some Throw Examples using Block String Punish: 1. Forward Throw, Back Dash, Forward Dash, Forward Jump Attack, stLp, Target Combo ~ Run Stop, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. Or Forward Jump Attack, TC ~ Low Hozanto, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. 2. Back Throw, Back Dash, Forward Jump Attack, crLp, Target Combo ~ Run Stop, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. Or Forward Jump Attack, TC ~ Low Hozanto, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. 3. (corner) Forward Throw, Back Jump, Forward Jump Attack, crLp, crLp, Target Combo ~ Run Stop, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. Or Forward Jump Attack, TC ~ Low Hozanto, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. ‘These are just a few, there are many more examples’.
Low Sumo Smash stuff: 1. If you stand block Low Sumo Smash while its coming up, its easy to punish on Honda’s landing recovery. A good punish I found is crHp, Target Combo, end with Run Slide or Ex Hozanto. You can also use raw Ultra 1 or 2 or combo into Guy’s Super. 2. If Low Sumo Smash is above Guy’s head you can counter it with close stHk (the computer use close stHk alot) or stLp, close stHp or crMp (ae 2012 ver.). 3. You can Focus it or use Ex Run Stop as long as Honda isn’t in recovery.
Heres an example of blocking Honda’s Low Sumo Smash: Target Combo ~ Run Slide, Neutral Jump Mk (on-block), stLp (while holding back), crLp, Target Combo ~ Run Stop, crMp buffered into Ex Hozanto. If Honda uses his Low Sumo Smash as a wake-up reversal, Guy will block it high because of the ‘stLp’, which can lead to a punish on Honda’s landing recovery. If Guy is blocking low, then all other Sumo Smash will whiff over Guy on his wake-up. You can use this in Throw set-ups as well. ‘Also if you have Honda in the corner and land Run Slide, Neutral Jump Attack but Honda wakes up with Ex Head butt’. If you Stand Block you can punish Honda with Target Combo vs stMp if you crouch block. (Though you cannot combo Target Combo into Low Hozanto, because Low Hozanto will whiff).
Okay I found something interesting against Honda. Forward Jump Hk or Neutral Jump Hk (on-block), Slight Forward Jump into instant Elbow Drop. Elbow Drop should hit in front of a crouching Honda. The goal is to condition Honda, that every time you do this, Elbow Drop is going to land in front of him. The trick is (or gimmick), after you condition Honda to ‘hold down-back’, use Elbow Drop to cross-up. Technically Elbow Drop can cross-up on a Honda who is holding down-back if your spacing is correct. E. Honda can technically auto-correct his Headbutt, but I find the timing some what strict. Honda can also technically just walk forward, but if you condition him, you can mix it up with block-strings and such.
The spacing for a crossup Elbow is ridiculously narrow because of how mediocre the hit box is on the backside.
Plus, you can’t condition a decent Honda with jumps. You will get beat by headbutts all day. With that slow ass jump you might as well be pausing the game so he can line Guy’s ass up.
I don’t doubt that’s true, but its interesting none the less.
To add to Blooddrunk’s crMk OS technology, I found that against a meterless Honda, you can also manually time a meaty crMk on Honda’s wake-up and in block-strings. I also found you can use other normals such as crMp, crLp, crLk and crHk. You can also time a meaty Ex Run Slide on wake-up, which can be safe on block. Also note that beating out Honda’s Low Headbutt will create a counter-hit. So its possible to do: Target Combo ~ Run Slide, walk up crMp (counter-hit), close stMk, Target Combo ~ Run Slide. 2. Target Combo ~ Run Slide, Neutral Jump Attack OS crMp. 3. Target Combo ~ Run Slide, Empty Neutral Jump crouch tech.