^ Please use paragraphs, and honestly suggesting changes at this point is just fantasy tweaking. I’m 99% sure Guy isn’t getting any more changes except for the possible nerf of a 2 frame EX tatsu.
@ Dex, he’s not a ‘mixup’ character for the most part. I’m surprised I have to say this, but run stop pressure is a lot better than you give it credit for. If you are still struggling with people constantly mashing crouch techs in run pressure, then practice the ways to beat them.
And secondly, he has some of the best up-close frame traps with normal pressure. Guy isn’t top-tier by any measure, but jesus christ he’s not bottom tier either -_-
I dont main Guy, I barely even play him, I just know all about him since my friend/training partner mains him. Im usually on the recieving end of frame traps and run stop pressure and I must say that while his frame traps are okay for the most part, run stop pressure just doesnt scare me at all (then again, ken can mash hp dp/cr.mk, sagats and fei longs jab reaches across the screen to hit him out of stuff so he is kind of forced to block lol)
And while I dont think he is such a bad character, despite the above avg recovery on it, st.mp is still a very amazing footsie tool and he indeed has good frame traps up close, I honestly dont see how he wins in a lot of matchups. I used to think he beats Sagat but now even that match I am tempted to say is closer to a 5-5 than Guy advantage, and he just loses so badly to shotos or cammy, or fei long, or honda, or grapplers, its like he only beats Dan and maybe a couple other irrelevant characters, but loses to or at bets goes even with a lot of the actual relevant cast (except maybe Adon and possibly Sagat, though again I feel like its more like a 5-5, except Sagat has to be constantly on point, even more so than usual)
Keetro, any recent footage of me is particularly me burning rust, so it’s not even me at my A game, the last time I even played soundly was Winterbrawl and sadly none of my tournament matches were streamed in the Singles. Once I get back into a groove and I’ll link things from locals as those have just recently started.
My response was basically assuming you have added in those changes with the final changes, so Guy’s TC does have a horizontal increase hence why I possibly thought he could have some great mileage of TC on block, I don’t have any forms of video recording so I could upload a video for you (otherwise I’d be focused on my tutorial of Guy.) Even with my knowledge of the character Guy can be played in several fashions and it’s usually based on one’s personal preference. As we know Guy can be played with an aggressive nature trying to stay ahead of your opponents’s mind and going for high risk and reward scenarios with unpredictability. Others can play in a conservative tone trying to play a steady patience game picking their spots for offense and defense respectively. I play more of a conservative tone most of the time and usually depends on the opponent, though garnishing both of those styles can really aid in getting into the mind of your opponent.
When I took the info you provided in I tried to look at all aspects even though a regular St.HP hit does lead to a 1 frame link, you have to think of the counter hit scenarios which can happen quite often. So it’s more of a should a character get this even with all the things given or does this seem to strong and have to take something out instead. I wouldn’t discredit this list mostly if this were the beginning of Ultra again, but considering now with the final changes. Guy would likely be given a damage reduction of that sort because of the mileage he’d get.If it were possible for me to change/mod AE currently to what you and recorded I would, it’d give a much better outlook on the changes than just theorizing everything.
from your list there i would cherry pick the following
makes sense, would be nothing new to him for this to come back now
cancelling this would compliment his ex run game taking it further with more possible setups by extension opening up his ultra game
if not this then compensate by expanding the width of jumping down+mp hitbox to cross up
ideal method of handling this would be to alter one his medium attacks to allow it combo into LP version from a non counter hit state, i would nominate crouch MP to this roll given its current change. also it would benefit him if far standing MP was -1 or -2 on block and 0 on hit
knowing that the move’s property restoration in general is seemingly a big “pill” for capcom to swallow, i suggest the middle ground of fixing it by extension of the EX version. where instead of the suggestion made by keetro here, instead giving what i suppose would be considered the gimmicky buff by all competitive level players here; we could take the middle ground and use these multiple command variations to apply these missing properties. All would still keep their tracking property in addition to adding:
LP+MP: Soft knock down from air to air contact
MP+HP: hits crouching guard/overhead(hit box data remains AE2012)
LP+HP: Chip/guard damage
though I feel that a 2 frame EX BSK is probably a typo or likely to be changed if not it, would effectively compensate for technical things such as shadow kick super cancel, BFED etc and so forth… now i only ask that someone would take a serious look into cody’s tools or the lacking of
EX Tatsu is in fact not a typo at all, the producers wanted to two test the waters with it and the footage of the USF4 stream where it was confirmed was shown and when they played Guy they did try to go for the one frame links, they missed them but it was only done I think twice,
To Dex, not to bust your friend’s balls but there are definitely ways to beat that. Your first reaction to a player not being able to deal with certain tactics should be to blame the player, not the character. He’s got more pokes than just st.mp as well, but anyways, moving on.
Somebody said his ex tatsu vacuums in like Gouken’s ex tatsu now? (obviously to a much lesser extent) Anyone see if it was at least more consistent on getting more hits?
I thank you as well monkeymadness. I have already taken into consideration of having a cody archetype body I don’t know if Capcom would consider any buff for Cody based on some of the strange pattern of choice, I would honestly like to hear your suggestions on him, but in a different time to not derail the guy board. what he was notable given is what I would truly consider all Gimmicky changes. some of the suggestion for your Utilization of EX Flip were never considered (Notably Soft KD for Air/ OverHead) I really like the overhead but you mentioned no other changes to it. It would bring to question as a character & mechanics designer.
would you consider it having the same block and hit stun as its current state, if now how would you mediate a tracking overhead ? for the fear of it being combo’d, safe & not be OP(against those with limited Wake up). considering the fact that guy is a Heavily based corner character?
I honestly don’t think the want the Soft KD as Guys go to game in the SF Engine as the reason it was not considered
No idea how well it vacuums cause never saw it at a distance but I want to see it against a Balrog and see if 3 hits is still given or if he gets hit by all 4
No, he is fine in footsies really (st.mk and even cr.mk or at times slide are all good footsie tools for guy, and cr.mp stuffs/beats tiger knees so i cant use them a lot in this matchup) but run stop pressure is gimmicky as fuck, and nothing anyone says will change my mind about that.