Guy Ultra SF4 Changes

edit: thought i posted this response from roughly over a week ago, but anyway,

i’m in total disagreement w/ the two above statements, my opinion differing here based off of an informed assumption i’ve recently come to, stemming through my years of being an invested fan more so than me being any kind of worthy tournament player of the character

1st one already mentioned being that he requires highest level of skill, dedication and understanding to excel in through the higher end/tiered character using competitors of top 16/8.
2ndly a game engine/sub engines that relatively allows more than 50% of itself into being beneficial to the character and his game plan/moveset. as i understand it, for a long time guy was considered bottom tier during A2’s arcade life cycle until the character was further explored well into a2’s after life for entertainment value. character/move/engine specific glitches aka the gimmick technology has at some time or another played some type of roll in just of how strong or consistently viable guy was in the past titles at the highest levels, (whether they’ve been character specific corner juggle supers out of special throw bugs + vcc’s A2, or kara cancel into specials+supers & air recovery restricting crouch/walk cancels of A3).
3rd and last of all the developer should have designed guy’s moveset to function in a practical fashion going by what was established as his mainstays in both design and function to the his character prior to now.

i can point out 3 instances where his move set is off currently,

edit: i’m not as gifted with words as some other members on this forum so bear with me here, as i’ve lost my train of thought on where i was going with these.

I think it was 4:53-5:05 in 1st vid, my point here is not how cool a video this is but what it was that this was and should be doing now

disclaimer the tactics seen here in this 2nd video do not accurately portray the kind of tactics guy would gain from properties of far 5lk in the SF4 engine and merely suggest the possibilities to his footsie game of acquiring pressure. this video is being used for educational purposes only

point here being is i suspect it took a combination of his moves designed properties and discovered glitches of the games engines and time to be
that two of three key components are actually required for guy to even be considered even mildly CONSISTENT in viability or competitive at a top 8/16 environment first. capcom appears to finally be going the right direction for changes but in my eyes seems to stop just short of the mark.

suggested requests for final balance changes are:
Bushin Flip has gotten to the point where too much emphasis has gone placed on the promoting of the Izuna Otoshi (grab) and players attempts at landing this move, to the point that its now forgotten what BF Eblow drop was suppose to do.

Lets return the BF. Elbow drop back to form keep its current hit/hurtboxes, give him back the soft knock down(at a forward trajectory), damage on guard properties.
convert his far 5lk to have cancel into special frames. suppose if you will, that these changes fall inline to going toward the characters strengths. confusing movement, gaining corner pressure

Wow. the BF itself not making any sound and coming out so fast makes a big difference in itself. As it currently is in SF4, it not only makes a sound but it’s pretty slow too - easy to react to. It was the complete opposite in Alpha days.

This is why we should push Guy to his limits. In time past their have been characters who was considered weak, but in the end of the games life cycle, was considered strong. Thats why I believe the corner is the key for Guy. We should be focusing on less Run Slide enders mid-screen but rather focus on the corner and create vortex-like situations. Before I had the internet, I to thought Guy was weak and dropped him for Cody in A3. Years later he was the complete opposite.

Guy (like yun) is a character that is very hard to balance.They are trying more so in sf4 then they did in alpha.If I had a choice guy would be able to cancel far st.lk, shadow kick be -5(not 10) on block more active frames,neck flip same start up but always 2hits and -4 recover on block ex version armor breaks both hits+ soft knockdown, all versions of hozanto less start-up light version would be 13-15 frames heavy would be current medium version in sf4 ae:2012.Bushin flip have would make a sound still but be airborne from frame 4-5 guy would too fair even with this.

we need to make more noise about guy… im telling you crapcom is gonna forget about us if we dont say anything… we have to make sure that we tell them that TC has to be “fixed properly” this time around… on another note has anyone noticed that the ultra sign at the begining of the first rounds in matches is the color silver/gray… so correct me if im wrong but super was like this then came ae with the gold/yellow sign… so this means (if they stick to the formula) that after ultra drops we will see another update or maybe more than one cause if u remember ono said that sf5 wouldnt be seen till around 2018. so its very likely they’re gonna be milking this cow for the foreseeable future…

I thought we would be getting a update for after ultra drops.I don’t think everyone will be happy with ultra,the new characters would have some type of hurtbox issues or a glitch.

They need to also fix how Ultra 1 juggles. I was practising a setup yesterday and I can’t tell you how many times the opponent didn’t fly up after the kicks - and Guy would just do the whole animation by himself… I was playing on PC so I thought maybe that has something to do with it - but it was scary how many times it happened.

Could be an attempt at a platinum shade.

We should pre-emptively create a Mighty/Snazzy Ultra SF4 Guy changes thread and bitch about some futuristic things, like how Guys air focus has a massive hurtbox, or that his Ultra 3 doesnt allow Bushin Chain juggle afterwards when used on Fuerte.

They fixed many of the issues since the nec. Build -_-
Afo they may only happen on PC

yo blood… is ur ovc on utube? if it is can u link it

Negative I think but I did link the twitch archive in the video thread otherwise it’s the very first winterbrawl stream.

Did anyone see Marq Teddy lose to JayceTheAce? I really wanna see and analyse that set. It saddens me when Guy is eliminated from tournaments by characters like Viper he should have little trouble with :frowning:

As iRedman stated, Marq Teddy loses to people that know the matchup.

So Capcom announced in USF4 you can now select between different versions of the game at the character select screen, in offline mode. I think thats interesting because there are some things I like about the Super Version of Guy vs the new versions. Such as crLk because it’s easier to link into stMp. Also Bushin Flip doing 200 dmg, close stMp doing more stun. Overall I will probably like the USF4 version the best because of walk speed, tc, elbow drop and run stop buffs and fixes. I can see tournament players going back overall to AE2012 Guy as well because of crMp and overall solid game play; maybe for certain match-ups.

i tried to find it… was it on stream? i scoured a bunch of the archive. g dragon beating chi rithy was pretty nice though.

Against shotos Guy can combo Jump-in Fierce, close stMk, stHp cancelled into Red Focus Crumple that creates 296 dmg. He can also do Jump-in Fierce, close stMk, TC cancelled into Red Focus Crumple that creates 286 dmg. To punish a blocked or whiff SRK, Guy can combo close stMk, TC cancelled into Red Focus Crumple that will do 208 dmg.

Does anyone think that Guy is going to be weaker because of delayed wake up? Most of Guy’s combos usually result in him going into Run Slide but if the safe jump pressure is gone, doesn’t that make him much weaker? Even if the opponent delay wake up every time, what can Guy do about it? I don’t think anything can really be done other than the usual wake up pressure from a random knockdown (i.e. no real set up) but if someone knows, please enlighten me.

If delayed wake up really screws with Guy’s game plan that much, I’m worried that the buffs that he’s getting aren’t going to be enough and will end up being an overall weaker character.

The neutral jump after the slide is good for OSing people, catching backdashes - but it was never really something ambiguous. The way I’m theorizing in my head, if they do delayed wake up after the slide, Guy has a chance for ambiguous mixups. He can land on either side and perhaps even cause a 50/50. I tried doing this in the current version but he’s not at a frame advantage when he lands so I never truly applied it to my game.

But still you would have to guess if they’re gonna delay or not i think.

The pressure was never safe against 3 frame Dps, or characters like Sagat with delayed DPs. I still think Guy can use it to his advantage though.

The mixup I use is choosing between neutral jump LP or empty neutral jump into cr. throw tech when you land. So they have to decide whether to block high or low, and if they back dash you can OS punish that. With Shotos you should only ever neutral empty jump then either land into cr. block and do delayed cr. throw tech (this keeps you safe against both wakeup 3 frame DP and wakeup throw) or back dash when you land to avoid wakeup DP (apart from Ken’s fierce which will still reach you). But this isn’t the best situation to put yourself in so I don’t go for this too often if I know the shoto player knows the matchup well.

Delayed wakeup will negate this mixup to an extent, but you can get a meaty attack or bushin flip in after landing if they do go for it. In short, I don’t think this will have much impact on Guy at all really. His neutral jump OS after TC > run slide is just a nice bonus on top of his other strengths. It won’t be a game changer for him at all.

Blocking the neutral jump mixups isn’t hard. You just high block and then quickly low block crouch tech after a short while. The timing is always the same cos this isn’t Guilty Gear and Guy doesn’t have a double hitting normal that works. In fact, mashing throw will probably beat the cr.lk and Guy would get thrown altogether if I’m not mistaken.

I don’t think Guy will lose a lot - and it’s probably more viable to use lp ender to send your opponent in the corner first.