Yes absolutely! The number of times you would see Ryu, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, Seth, etc. getting away with DP (blocked) > FADC forward dash > DP. Especially Seth who also has a command grab to consider and can OS punish any character’s back dash with Hundred Kicks. All he needed was 2 bars to setup a rock/paper/scissors guessing game. This change is going to seriously level the playing field between these characters and the rest of the case, and make it a much more thoughtful game. No more braindead FADCs in either offensive or defensive situations. I like this a lot!
Read in another thread that you can do dp->fadc->release and then dash forward and that is safer. I guess you can still press buttons between the dp and the release of the fadc but i’m not sure if peeple are willing to risk getting a lvl 1 counterhit focus crumple…
I find it funny that half of the change list is the same as the last version of the game. Faster walk speed, improved target combo, U1 travels more, etc. It means they never got it right the first revision which we already know and now they are trying to fix the same problems again. Would be nice if his sbk had the same recovery as Oni’s srk. Also, add that izuna combo that’s in sfxtk just for style points. Probably wouldn’t do much damage but it’s still cool. Maybe just the ex version for a hard knockdown
It’s funny that for every update people always say Guy is gonna be much better etc or even upper tier. He’ll still probably have a weak reversal game and Ultra 1 will still be just as slow and situational. Moreover, the elbows will probably remain unfixed and nothing to worry about from the perspective of the opponent.
The flips need to come out faster and be airborne and throw invisible from startup. This way you can empty jump into instant flip and (bait) punish throw whiff. Otherwise, as Guy is now, you ain’t ever catching anyone standing.
You mean people as in the average player? Yeah they will get grabbed - it won’t work on anyone beyond that level, unless they’ve had very few matches against Guy so it still retains that “surprise” element.
Otherwise, it’s not hard to crouch - it’s blatantly obvious and slow. If you’re happy with catching noobs with it then that’s fine.
Anyway my suggestion isn’t supposed to make people stand - it’s supposed to offer setups for Guy, like baiting and punish throws.
Admittedly, I very rarely catch really good players standing with bushin flip grabs. The only exception is when players think you might be going to tick throw them so they hold back to walk away. So if you cancel cr. LK into LP bushin flip and they walk back, they will almost certainly get grabbed for their mistake. But they are unlikely to go for that mistake again in that game, so next time you probably should tick throw them or delay tatsu to catch their cr. throw tech. I’m all about these kind of mind games!
More often than not, if I DO land a bushin flip grab, it’s either an air-to-air or catching a fireball’s recovery frames. This is particularly viable against characters who seem to spend a lot of time in the air (Dhalsim, Adon, M. Bison, Vega, Akuma + Gouken demon flips, etc.) Something I like to do with fireball characters is build meter from full screen with LP or MP bushin flip elbow drops, also baiting out their fireball game. With the correct spacing and fast enough reactions, you can catch a lot of fireballs with successful mid screen MP or full screen HP bushin flip grabs. This should be mixed up with doing MP hozanto on reaction to go under fireballs, and the ever-reliable EX run slide.
In spite of what many people consider to be its flaws, I still think that bushin flip is a fantastic move as it is. It’s just very situational and often used far too much and incorrectly by many Guy players. To try and teach them the error of their ways, in mirror matches I usually just sit there waiting for stupid jump ins or bushin flips which I can easily catch 99% of the time with a cr. MK or cr. MP. But it’s amazing how many players keep doing the same thing even when I’m clearly demonstrating to them that I can punish their every attempt at it.
Pro tip - Learn from your mistakes. If it’s not working, stop keep doing it!
I catch high level players with it in tournament, its possible you just have to force players into making the mistake.
We’ll never be at the level of Alpha 3 with it where we could combo into it etc. The move is still usable at high level, you just have to get into the mind of your opponent.
I used to compete in tournaments, and once you reached top 8, the flip and run overhead were two moves you wouldn’t wanna do cos the opponents would react to them accordingly.
I agree with Nebbiez that you can catch airborne opponents with it - but to actually make high level players who are used to the Guy match-up stand, is just not gonna happen. Just ask yourself if you ever stand in the mirror. I know I definitely don’t and there’s no situation they can create to make it “surprising” to me.
Trying to grab fireball characters with MP and HP flips is an interesting idea - I’ve not really practised doing that enough. But as the move is now, I believe its best use is to play evasively and escape the corner - and I’m sure it wasn’t designed for that. Other than that, down back all day - you’ll be okay…and if you want more, then just hit a low normal to make it whiff entirely. If people ( even if they’re considered high level players) don’t do that, then they simply haven’t got the knowledge about the match-up, or haven’t experienced enough of the match-up.
Some players aren’t going to just sit there and let you push them to them bully you so they’ll do something like a reversal or mash. This sets you up to bait them for it whether it be walk back and whiff punish or block and punish the reversal. This can cause opponents to just jump away. Also you can cancel from other normals to cause people suspect other things. Like if you did a block string and went into f.mp or did run overhead or something from cr.lk
It all depends on who you play against. What you’re talking about can be considered “party tricks” against some experienced players I’ve faced - and on the other hand they’ll work just fine on others. My point is, both run overhead and flip are not difficult to react against, once a player reaches a certain level. They need to be made slightly faster, a couple of frames, or maybe more for the flip.
They did this for Ibuki’s overhead and made it faster, although you can still block it on reaction most of the time - but it’s positive anyway.
Yeah but now they are making that thing incredibly safe and useful on block so everyone is going to look to anti air that kick… Capcom logic, it’s slow and on hit she can get a knockdown… lets make it positive on block
Did you see the Team USA vs. Team Europe side tournament at EVO? Marq Teddy ran a train on everyone… Ryan Hart, Problem X, all those guys. And it’s not like he just beat them either, he literally embaressed them with a lot of what I would call ‘party tricks’. There is a lot more to be said for Guy’s gimmicks than people give credit for. The idea that playing solid footsies and not going for pressure and gimmicks is the only way to beat tournament players is a myth. Sometimes going ham just works. Marq made top 32 at EVO (lost to Infiltration so you can’t blame him for that) and regularly made top 3 or 4 at WNF, usually only losing to Snake Eyez Zangief or Velociraptor counter picking him with Honda.
Or an NGL member, but he also beat many in Money Matches like Dogura who I believe had an incredibly off day for his AE game. However he still lost, sometimes the traps work, sometimes they don’t. Gotta use those Jedi Mind tricks
So I hear EX Red Focus will crumple on level 1, creating new combos in Ultra Street Fighter 4. I wonder what guy can gain from this compare to just using holding off til he has super.Kinda seeing why alot of the changes didn’t stay on some characters after they up the damage on W ultras.
in case anyone was wondering … here’s the team usa vs europe matches. marq teddy’s 1st match comes in around 24:55. on a side note… does anyone find balrog’s(boxer) hitbox incredibly annoying? he gets pushed back really strangely or something after blocking an attack. something like cr. short/cr. jab > cl. forward as a block string doesn’t work on him. you end up getting far st. forward instead. other blockstrings like… trying to string together multiple lights don’t work on him the same way they work on other characters either.
To be frank, I’m not gonna give credit to random hozantos and random slides at punishable ranges - even if they do get someone the win. The teams tournament mean you play one game and you’re done. Not to mention, EVO has a lot of average players too, but top 32 is still a commendable spot and in general Guy is a good tournament character up until you reach finals, i.e to 32, top 8, whatever, cos he’s an unusual character to learn to fight against, and most stil don’t know how to approach him.
In a long set, say to 10 or out of 7 even, I don’t see a play style like that going very far. You can surprise a high level player and beat them a round or two, but long term, once you get used to the PLAYER, you know what to expect.
Going ham like you said, is a viable tactic if you wanna change your playstyle and your opponent isn’t expecting it - but to always play like that isn’t gonna cut it long term.