Guile Moveset and Attributes

[Warahk]

a BLOCKED ex boom does 24 dmg

[bunsomite]

^^ i agree. unless its going to kill them. ill take the RH flash kick.

[Monsterer]

sobat kick

My Ryu friend who is a master at focus and dashing forward to link his lows and keeping me blocked with medium kick > fireball has been owning me way to much .He knows guile cant fight crossups and knows that we are 90% crounch blocking so he mixes on wakeup the grab, medium kick, overhead punch, block, or another cross up. Thats not the problem, the problem is not guessing right 1 or 2 times, but when it comes to guessing 3-4 times without you giving a fair response such as EX flash kick makes me feel sick. I know ex flash kick stuffs his medium kick> fireball combo but he does not do it all the time. Many times I dont have ex bar or sometimes he doesnt shoot fireball and I end up eating a 35% damage combo. I have not figure out a way to keep him off , he finishes his links (me blocking all) , then he usually gets his focus up and dashes once more to mix , so yeah it is HELL to be guessing.

Once I pressed back and medium kick when he was focus waiting and to my luck I thought the focus was going to hit me but NO!, the Chuck Norris move guile has actually stuffed ryus hand. It was done at medium distance and since that sobat kick is a spining retreating kick it started to balance out the match a little bit. Also, after me covering all his links he tends to charge focus , I figured that a quick stand up grab works better instead of hitting him back and eating a punch on my face. If you guys think FK is a good idea here, the answer is no since he back dashes.

Ive seen this weird kick do some other crazy things that you would not believe. So my question is, what else is it good for? what moves does it work on? smae goes for the upsaide down fierce kick? uses?

[deckonime]

if i were u i would fucking do a random fk right under his chin while he doing his mixups. or fk through his random focus attempts. thats just me btw

[BlitzJS]

Gilley had posted that if you block a blanka ball standing, you get an extra frame which may help the EX SB punish. I’ve noticed a lot of the Japanese players will block Sagat’s TK string, low * n then when the TK comes, they will stand but then do nothing in return because the TK was safe. Just wondering if anyone knew why they did this, especially Guile players since you lose the down charge.

[Kich]

Gilley had posted that if you block a blanka ball standing, you get an extra frame which may help the EX SB punish. I’ve noticed a lot of the Japanese players will block Sagat’s TK string, low * n then when the TK comes, they will stand but then do nothing in return because the TK was safe. Just wondering if anyone knew why they did this, especially Guile players since you lose the down charge.

If you also notice, many of the japanese players only really use flash kick when they need to (as a punish or maybe part of a jump-in). I don’t think losing it at random bothers them that much. Check out the video thread, fantastic japanese guile wrecks a Sagat and I’m fairly certain he only flash kick’s once, he might do a wakeup FADC out of one as well at some point I can’t really remember.

I think what it boils down to is that it’s probably not as big a deal to lose your down-charge than it is to lose your back-charge. Flash kick isn’t the greatest anti-air though, so outside of a combo you don’t really -need- the down charge.

[Dagger_G]

Flashkick is way more useful than people make it out to be. Its a great reversal. You can reversal rh.flashkick a lot of moves that most characters have a hard time punishing. For example: Balrog cr.rh and shoto sweep. Against Ryu you can kara rh.flashkick to reversal his sweep almost at the max distance.

Also ex.flashkick is pretty important to go through lockdown strings like sagat tk setups and shoto cr.mk x hadouken.

[Dullyanna]

Gilley had posted that if you block a blanka ball standing, you get an extra frame which may help the EX SB punish. I’ve noticed a lot of the Japanese players will block Sagat’s TK string, low * n then when the TK comes, they will stand but then do nothing in return because the TK was safe. Just wondering if anyone knew why they did this, especially Guile players since you lose the down charge.

Blocking a move high or low doesn’t change how fast you recover from block, it affects how far you’re pushed back (Hence why punishing Blanka balls is often easier or only possible if you do it standing).

[Poochie]

Also, I am a bit curious why lk flashkick works so much better than the mk or hk when the wiki lists them as all having the same invul frames. My only guess is the hitbox becomes worthwhile faster since it looks like guile flips a bit closer to the ground.

I thought it worked better simply because LK flashkick also has 2 frames of upper body invulnerability (at least according to JPN frame data scans). of course, that’s almost nothing compared to 11-13 frames of lower body invulnerability the shoto’s have… it’s probably the first thing that needs to be changed for the next installment.

on the topic of not using EX Flash in a combo, another obvious reason not to use it. a normal Flash gives you the most meter of all of his moves, using a EX moves gives you none… seriously, the 20 damage is not worth it…

[BlitzJS]

If you also notice, many of the japanese players only really use flash kick when they need to (as a punish or maybe part of a jump-in). I don’t think losing it at random bothers them that much. Check out the video thread, fantastic japanese guile wrecks a Sagat and I’m fairly certain he only flash kick’s once, he might do a wakeup FADC out of one as well at some point I can’t really remember.

I think what it boils down to is that it’s probably not as big a deal to lose your down-charge than it is to lose your back-charge. Flash kick isn’t the greatest anti-air though, so outside of a combo you don’t really -need- the down charge.

What I don’t understand is if you aren’t going to do anything in return, why not maintain both a back and a down charge? Especially considering if he messes up the spacing on a TK, c.mp > FK is probably the most damaging punish you can do w/o burning meter(s).

Like Dagger G said, I think FK is critical to stopping the annoying TK block string.

[BlitzJS]

Blocking a move high or low doesn’t change how fast you recover from block, it affects how far you’re pushed back (Hence why punishing Blanka balls is often easier or only possible if you do it standing).

taken from the matchups thread:

You actually recover from block stun 1 frame faster when blocking high than blocking low. This is why it’s easier for you to counter with the EX SB from a high block. The only way for gouken to counter a blocked blanka ball is to block it high, then do a jab palm reversal. I try to keep in mind to block bison’s scissors and sagat’s tiger knee high so that it will give you a better chance to counter their poke after you block them.

I just found this which is interesting:

Right now, I’ve been trying to figure out why blocking a spaced LK tiger knee high makes it less safe for Sagat on block. As I understand it, the reason Sagat wants some space between you and he before performing the knee is so the second hit of the knee is meaty - or connects with the opponent during the later active frames.

The second hit of the LK tiger knee has 12 active frames. If Sagat connects on the first active frame, he has 12 frames, plus 13 recovery before he can act again. At the same time, that first active frame starts the 20 frame block stun to the opponent. In this scenario, the opponent will have 5 frames to act after his block stun has ended before Sagat can act.

If the same scenario is played out with some more space, the second hit might connect somewhere in the middle of the active frames. For kicks, lets say frame 6. Frame 6 means 6 more frames active, plus 13 recovery. 19 frames before Sagat can act. That 6th frame starts the same 20 frame block stun on the opponent. Sagat recovers 1 frame before the opponent.

If the same scenario is played out with the opponent blocking high, I believe it forces Sagat’s second hit to connect earlier due to the arc of the knee, and making Sagat less safe. Does this make sense or am I off my rocker?

Is this accurate?

[Hoppa]

Flashkick is way more useful than people make it out to be. Its a great reversal. You can reversal rh.flashkick a lot of moves that most characters have a hard time punishing. For example: Balrog cr.rh and shoto sweep. Against Ryu you can kara rh.flashkick to reversal his sweep almost at the max distance.

Also ex.flashkick is pretty important to go through lockdown strings like sagat tk setups and shoto cr.mk x hadouken.

if ryu does an EX fireball, the ex flash kick hits once. very strange as to why

[bunsomite]

im assuming its because like the EX flash kick a ex fire ball has some more invulnerability frames then normal.

anyways. i agree with dagger G. i use flashkicks or try to as a reversal tool or to get out of block strings and it works wonders.

what i dont use the flash kick for ( most of the time) is as an AA.

[Nemesys_Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Dullyanna
Blocking a move high or low doesn’t change how fast you recover from block, it affects how far you’re pushed back (Hence why punishing Blanka balls is often easier or only possible if you do it standing).

taken from the matchups thread:

Originally Posted by gilley
You actually recover from block stun 1 frame faster when blocking high than blocking low. This is why it’s easier for you to counter with the EX SB from a high block. The only way for gouken to counter a blocked blanka ball is to block it high, then do a jab palm reversal. I try to keep in mind to block bison’s scissors and sagat’s tiger knee high so that it will give you a better chance to counter their poke after you block them.

I just found this which is interesting:

Originally Posted by apex
Right now, I’ve been trying to figure out why blocking a spaced LK tiger knee high makes it less safe for Sagat on block. As I understand it, the reason Sagat wants some space between you and he before performing the knee is so the second hit of the knee is meaty - or connects with the opponent during the later active frames.

The second hit of the LK tiger knee has 12 active frames. If Sagat connects on the first active frame, he has 12 frames, plus 13 recovery before he can act again. At the same time, that first active frame starts the 20 frame block stun to the opponent. In this scenario, the opponent will have 5 frames to act after his block stun has ended before Sagat can act.

If the same scenario is played out with some more space, the second hit might connect somewhere in the middle of the active frames. For kicks, lets say frame 6. Frame 6 means 6 more frames active, plus 13 recovery. 19 frames before Sagat can act. That 6th frame starts the same 20 frame block stun on the opponent. Sagat recovers 1 frame before the opponent.

If the same scenario is played out with the opponent blocking high, I believe it forces Sagat’s second hit to connect earlier due to the arc of the knee, and making Sagat less safe. Does this make sense or am I off my rocker?

Is this accurate?

Always thought that the difference between high block and low block wasn’t due to frame difference but actually the size of the hitbox. Low block has a bigger or wider hitbox than blocking high.

I’m going to go with Apex as I believe there is no difference between high or low block just the size of the hitbox varying the recovery frames between the attack and the blockstun applied.

[syngin]

Flashkick is way more useful than people make it out to be. Its a great reversal. You can reversal rh.flashkick a lot of moves that most characters have a hard time punishing. For example: Balrog cr.rh and shoto sweep. Against Ryu you can kara rh.flashkick to reversal his sweep almost at the max distance.

Also ex.flashkick is pretty important to go through lockdown strings like sagat tk setups and shoto cr.mk x hadouken.

If you get a chance, can you list out some of the other kara (or plain) hk.fk punishers? I’m using it on shoto c.hk often and in block strings, but Boxer’s c.hk is a new one for me.

[GuruPrimo]

On the topic of FK’s (although maybe better in the match-up’s thread)

Last night I was facing a cammy online that was doing spiral arrow followed by cannon spike. Not a very in depth strategy, so I decided to play around with punishes on block…

I am sure this has been noted before, but c.mp xx FK didn’t seen to work but lk.FK did, looks like c.mp has 4 frames of start-up and lk.FK has 4 frames of start-up (vs. spiral arrow being -17 and -10 on block).

Is this a lag thing? I was just baffled, because even if it is a lag thing both punishes should either work or not work.

[Nemesys_Syndrome]

Crouching mp = 4 frame start up. Becomes active on the fifth frame. Has no invincibility.
Lk Flashkick = 4 frame start up. The first 3 frames of the flashkick are invincible.

Edit: Oh and all of Cammy’s Cannon Spikes have a 5 frame start up.

Hope that helps.

[GuruPrimo]

Ah…I wasn’t wrapping my head around the active frames I guess. Still confused but It looks like I was possibly using c.mp too early since it activates at the fifth frame, which is why lk.FK (active on 11) worked because I was initiating it at the same post block interval as c.mp xx fk.

Sorry if this is totally wrong, but I am working on figuring out frame workings…

[Nemesys_Syndrome]

It also depends on how Cammy spaces her spiral arrow as well. If she does the initial spiral arrow up close (a little outside sweep distance). You can actually punish it with c.mp before she recovers to start the Cannon spike. Don’t wait for the Spiral Arrow animation to finish. Start moving the second the block is initiated. There’s no way she can jut out a Cannon spike at that range nor can she FADC from there either.

Good punisher to use would be c.:lp:, cr.:mp: xx Flashkick.

[GuruPrimo]

It also depends on how Cammy spaces her spiral arrow as well. If she does the initial spiral arrow up close (a little outside sweep distance). You can actually punish it with c.mp before she recovers to start the Cannon spike. Don’t wait for the Spiral Arrow animation to finish. Start moving the second the block is initiated. There’s no way she can jut out a Cannon spike at that range nor can she FADC from there either.

Good punisher to use would be c.:lp:, cr.:mp: xx Flashkick.

Nice, thanks a lot for the info.