*"-Super SFIV and Super SFIV Arcade Edition players can play against one-another. However, the gameplay falls back to Super spec in terms of characters, rules and balance."
-**woot!
**Shoryuken - SSF4 AE - Official Site Updated with Q & A
Quick! someone tell me how to make 2 separate images of SFIV on a PS3 / Xbox
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Soooo… Backfist does less damage than Standing Heavy Punch?
LOL…
Wait you serious? 
Well good thing they allow a Super Vs Arcade Edition via SUPER balance, but thats just avoiding the inevitable.
Ya srsly its more of a spinning back rub now
so a list of nerfs is ok, but who does guile lose to in AE that he didnt in super? i can see sagat, but who else?
Imo, matchups that have really decreased in Guile’s favor are
Adon
Fei
Vega
I feel his all his matchups have generally gotten harder in a sense that he has to hit/AA more to win and doesn’t have much meter for EX booms. Guile is a character heavily dependent on AAs and normals to deal dmg and almost all of it has been nerfed. In super, jumping in on Guile could cost you a lot more dmg than in AE so the non-fb characters have a significant advantage.
I’d imagine that Guile players who use backfist a lot to punish walk-in attempts will find that a lot more matchups like Gief have gotten harder.
For Sagat matchup, I think the only major factor affecting it is that it’s a lot harder to catch TS with SH and having enough meter for EX boom. I think it’s 5.5-6 in Sagat’s favor now.
so you think fei beats guile now? or its just not as heavily in his favor?
I think an average Fei won’t give a good Guile problems but a good Fei is like a 7:3 matchup for a good Guile cos good Feis can push anyone to the corner easily and Fei has a superb corner game. Good Feis that can walk and buffer and c.lp buffer qcf.
IMO Gen and Ken are gonna be a real pain for Guile in AE as well.
i dunno man. the fundamentals of the match should still play out the same. i cant imagine that the jab sweep combo that fei got + guile nerfs completely flips the match in the opposite direction.
fei didnt lose to guile because of spinning back fists or guile having meter, or sonic hurricanes. it was because fei dosent get in on guile without a really good guess. now with less damage, fei gets more guesses, but enough to make guile lose?
guile + down charge can punnish just about every blocked rekka. ex chicken wing is still pretty useless in this match, and im not seeing fundamental changes that swing the match that heavily. maybe it goes to 5-5?
i can see ken. but gen has the same fundamental match problems that fei has, except he dosent have the health, or the space control tools when there isnt a boom on the screen
what were guiles 5-5 matches in console super? if those characters got some serious buffs, i can see how those matches could become bad
just trying to get a handle on how far guile may have slipped without just looking at the nerf/buff list, and applying the info to match scenarios
I dont have any experience against gen in AE, and very little experience against him in super since yeb dropped him. In strict theory fighter i think this match will be harder for guile mostly due to the air throw nerf. Gen’s crane j.fierce is one of those jump ins that doesnt really lose, ever. Guile’s air throw range is what enabled him beat gen in vanilla.
But yeah, the only good super gen i’ve played is Nu from norcal, and i’ve never played a gen in AE.
All match ups are harder for guile in AE compared to super, except for maybe bison, and maybe honda? The new push back on scissor kick is not good for bison. honda supposedly lost priority on j.mp which could change the match up, i haven’t played against honda much in AE though either, so im not sure yet.
edit: i think ryu is the same, or easier in AE. His low forward nerf is noticable, and he cant escape corner pressure with tatsu
The reason I said Gen is beacuse Gen has:
A kick ass crossup game(Guile is weaker to crossups)
A unique and rather hard to AA jumping arc that travels far horizontally -I can see him landing more air attack counter hits due to the sb counter hit nerf.
Good options as far as mixup and confusion goes(when he is jumping off a wall it can be disorienting)
Less matchup familiarity overall - he is known to be the LEAST popular character(by a nice margin)
…So I think Gen is somewhat of a wildcard/unknown character overall in AE and wouldnt be surprised to see him blow up a few majors and surprise a lot people if a pro dedicates fully to him.
It’s not the jab sweep combo that’s causing a big drift. It’s more to the meter need for FK fadc/EX boom to push Fei away. If you used an EX boom to push him, you most probably won’t have enough meter for FK fadc as Fei will eventually get in. He just has to walk and block to half screen and make you block a well-spaced rekka to tip the scale in his favor. You can’t FK on block if the rekka hits at the max range and FK really does pathetic dmg when you wanna use it as a guess reversal in AE. If you just blocked and wait for 2nd rekka hit, you will be pushed to the corner. If you press say s.hp on block, you risk getting hit with 2nd hit rekka which will make Guile lose a lot of distance if hit. The general dmg nerfs to Guile also affects a lot cos Guile takes more dmg from a successful guess on SB and outputs lesser dmg which allows for more guesses by Fei. And when Fei takes a guess, the risk-reward is actually in his favor cos Guile can’t dish out much dmg if he misses.
Guile has to spam booms from far in this matchup to delay him from getting in, but he can’t get too predictable cos Fei can anticipate with chicken wing from 3/4 screen into quite a lot of dmg and spacing lost.
Airthrow also makes it harder now to AA Fei if he uses his j.hk well in AE. Guile can substitute with s.mk but he lost the positioning and untechable knockdown from airthrow which is really important in this matchup if the Fei uses jump-ins to close distance instead of walk and block. A forward airthrow can help Guile to escape to full screen and a backbreaker can get him out of the corner easily.
SH startup makes it harder to punish whiffed hp rekka now. It was possible in Super if you’re looking out for it. You still can use it to punish chicken wing, just not as damaging as it was and it’s the ultra to use against Fei cos Guile can walk back and SH.
I have never thought this matchup is in Guile’s favor in super. I felt it’s 5.5 in Fei’s favor actually cos if Guile is at a disadvantage even if he blocks a chicken wing. 7:3 applies if the Fei player isn’t familiar with the matchup and doesn’t know how to walk Guile into the corner.
[media=youtube]o2BzAKxvj_s]YouTube - Mago [Fei] vs Daigo [Guile] – Tokido [Go] vs ACQUA0316 [Ibuki[/media]
I think Mago would have done considerable better if he didn’t miss combos after chicken wing.
[media=youtube]Aw15tmMtFxk[/media]
I think this Fei could have won if he didn’t miss the last combo. And I think this vid also shows that it isn’t actually 7:3 in Guile’s favor.
Ya, it’s like every matchup got 1.0 or .5 worse or something. I think while Ryu lost the corner escape and the c.mk active frames, a well played Ryu doesn’t really need tatsu to escape corners and still uses c.mk effectively. Guile’s U2 nerf(s) and backfist damage nerf are more of an issue than those two nerfs for Ryu, IMO.
Guy is a little bit more rough now. His s.mp is pretty sick when playing footsies. All in all though… ya… everyone is harder to deal with. I’ll still stick with Guile only because I have no competition really here in Bahrain that I have found yet and I’m too lazy to pick up another character.
i never actually thought it was 7-3 guile. most fei players would tell you 6-4 guile. interesting to hear the other side of things tho. i’ll just agree to disagree about that match.
but i will tell you air throws and whiff punnishing poorly spaced rekkas or chicken wings with SH arent things that make the match hard.
its more about guile being able to control the match so well within half a screen. any punishes fei makes have to be flat out really good guesses.
i’ll see if i can get a few more fei players to come in and tell their side of things
I think it was 6-4 Guile in Super. Guile is now down and fei is up, so the tables may turn in fei’s favor 6-4, maybe 5.5-4.5 but its just a guess at this point. Backfist was handy for a long range distance AA as well as a few things Rexell mentioned(less dmg) now hurt the matchup. All of his matchups are more of an uphill climb now, in Vanilla it was a solid 5-5.
Personally I’ve always felt Fei Guile was 4-6 in Guile’s favour. The nerfs to Guile are harsh and I feel sorry for you guys, but I still think it will be in slightly in Guile’s favour, if anything but a 5-5, because the matchup dynamics are still the same. Booms can’t be reacted to and have to be read/guessed very well; in my experience Guile can throw a boom after I’ve just left to ground during Fei’s jump and still have time to block, whilst EX CW takes like 30+ frames total to get to Guile from half screen, so booms are still going to zone as well as before, and his pokes/anti-airs are still going to be there.
In the true sense of matchups, assuming both players are of equal skill and abilities in offensive and defensive choices and mixups, I’d say that the dyanamics of the matchup still leave Fei at a disadvantage, it’ll just take a more time/patience to keep him out because of the damage reduction. A better match to examine in this discussion than ones already posted would be the [media=youtube]KLz3Q7nFT3Y"[/media]. Now, Daigo’s used Guile less than Mago’s used Fei, or at least I’m going to assume that much, yet the zoning and choices in the match mean that Mago has to play erratically to attempt to open Guile up, because both Guile’s and Daigo’s defense were so on point.
But then again, here I am theory fighting, as I’ve not had chance to play AE, but *in my mind,
The fact about Fei’s EX CW as a “good guess” is that it must be from a certain distance to have the ability to:
A) Intercept the SB in time and not be blocked
B) Still remain invincible to projectiles
C) Not get batted out by st.HP or MP (whatever that weird uppercut looking thing is where Guile looks like he’s going for a cat-stretch)
Thanks to Guile’s faster walk speed it can be easier for him to control that spacing and remain at that range where guesses are not beneficial to Fei. A bunch of feints also wouldn’t hurt to get Fei to waste meter and take damage for it.
Fundamentally, the match is different where meter counts–when Fei pushes Guile to the wall via patient walking. There’s merit to the argument where Guile will not have as much meter available when he gets to that point, especially if he relies on EX Boom for zoning. At the corner, Guile will end up doing more blocking than in Super, just to wait for that moment when he can punish an overhead, CW, jump-in, Focus, or bad Rekka. That could lead to Fei getting a meter advantage if his offense is tight enough, though it doesn’t necessarily mean that Guile will take a lot of damage if he can at least react to the overhead with stand blocking (or Flash Kick), and if he late-techs well.
That said, with even a random Flash kick, Guile regains positioning and can get back to where the game is in his favor at mid-screen. In this vein, while Fei can be random at mid-screen to get a “good guess,” Guile can do the same at the corner. Admittedly, Fei’s guess is more in his favor than Guile’s guess on a damage and positioning basis, however, Guile doesn’t have to open himself up to that random EX CW by remaining at an optimal range or even perhaps by turning up his offense (which we cannot forget in this match-up just because Guile traditionally zones). In sum, Fei’s offense requires more risk than Guile’s zoning, and the risk-reward ratio shows it, without a doubt.
As far as the jab-sweep buff for Fei, I haven’t seen any Feis really take advantage of the jump-in, especially when the jab can be converted to Rekkas for a corner knockdown. That doesn’t mean it won’t have an affect on the match–just that it hasn’t been shown to be a huge factor yet (though someone please prove me wrong so I gain some inspiration on when to use it, thanks :bgrin:)
In practice, I don’t think Guile can play this match totally turtle-like anymore and win that way unless he’s really sharp since Fei faces no threat when he only walks. With a few bursts of some meter-building offense, Guile makes this 5/5. Just to note though, Guile can completely shut down Fei in Super with his zoning game and some burst offense; forget Flash Kick FADC nonsense. It’s 6/4 there based on that. In AE where the dynamic shifts will be in Fei’s corner pressure vs Guile’s defense, and not some loss in Guile’s damage output. You wouldn’t see a dozen Flash Kicks in Super, so don’t count up those pennies lost. It makes more sense to look at Guile’s normals and EX Boom rate, and even then, you should look at it pessimistically, where Fei blocks most of the moves thrown randomly rather than as frame traps/set-ups. The question is, can Guile still zone effectively with his tools (sans randomness)? Maybe to a lesser degree than in Super, but I still think yes.
It’ll be very helpful now if I trade a rekka with a boom, Guile will be counterhit and it will be in my favour. That coupled with less meter building, and a less effective chip game from Guile vs. Fei (damage nerfed across the board for Guile), means I’ll have a far easier time. This matchup is no contest 6/4 for Guile in Super, and it’s a really damn annoying matchup, in the fact even if you take Guile to the corner he can still chip/zone you very well, but that important aspect will change in AE giving you bigger of an advantage in the corner. Also EX Rekka should be helpful in the corner to chip and pressure since it’s safe up to 2nd hit in AE. And it nullifies projectiles but don’t think it’s very effective in the corner to nullify sonic booms as they come out.
Personally love when you keep that one spot where Fei’s try to rekka Guile safely and just run right into CH b+hp x 2 which 8/10 times cause them to fadc or just regular backdash and leaves them wide open for an U2.
Rekkas aren’t too fantastic against Booms since SBs have a 9-frame start-up and because Guile’s always walking backwards (blocking). That means you need to either preemptively throw out the Rekka (MP or HP) as a guess to hit, or be in range for LP. Unfortunately, Guile’s walkspeed makes it near impossible to be in range for LP until he’s in the corner though. Random/misspaced Rekkas also open Fei up to st.HP so it’s probably not one of Fei’s preferred options to get in.
EX Rekkas also nullify projectiles in Super/Vanilla. You have to hit with the active hitbox though, so the 7 frame start-up before that is vulnerable. It’s tough to do altogether, and probably won’t hit Guile in recovery since you need to pile-drive through with 2 Rekkas after the first one cancels out the projectile.
Lol you would Nem. Blam Blam Blam!