Also keep in mind that Guile’s cr.mp has a 4 frame start up and is active for quite awhile. Another item that stuffs Rekkas quite abit.
Limite SB usage to midscreen only for baiting and Focus Attacking the CW. CW armor breaks only on the first hit. If you’re going to use SB’s, use them to get Fei to jump and be as random as possible with the SB’s. Easy Misshun!
EDIT: I was this close to getting an XBox on Saturday night. Heh.
Fully agree with you, when referring to Rekkas I only meant in corner. EX Rekka is useful in corner for chipping now, as opposed to before when it was pretty much useless except in combos, and that’s nice chip damage and safer than going for a EX CW to chip etc. which is more dangerous.
Glad to hear some Fei’s thoughts on the matchup. I think it’s useful for players of both character to improve on the same matchup.
Although it’s best to guess and hit SB with EX chicken wing, it’s also in Fei’s favor if he missed the chicken wing by a few frames, just as long as Guile has to block and not hit/afraid to hit a normal to AA it. For me, it’s really hard to punish EX chicken wing if Fei does buffers and reacts on a SB at about half screen distance. I’ve learnt not to backdash often after a blocked chicken wing cos if Fei press c.lp, he’ll recover in time to hit Guile with 3 rekka hits. It’s also not in Guile’s favor to use FA, unless it’s at 3/4 screen to anticipate chicken wing as he’ll lose charge and can’t boom so Fei can just walk in.
It’s also good for Fei to pressure with rekkas slightly earlier to aim for a trade or counterhit on SB cos upon trade, Fei can combo into rekka again. Fei is one of the characters that Guile will be afraid to boom at footsie range due to his FA and rekka counterhit. It’s actually quite dangerous for Guile if Fei stays outside his s.hp range cos his long range normals are slow.
Guile can use s.hp to try counterhitting rekka, but it’s a risk and not recommended against Feis with fast reactions who will most likely punish s.hp on whiff with rekka. But hitting that combo really feels good on Feilong. Backfist can also be punished the same way on whiff, or just a sweep/c.mk from Fei if he’s looking out for it. I guess a lot of players don’t know this but Guile’s legs actually reach forward and makes it easier for the opponent to punish with low attacks.
FK is one of the main ways for Guile to deal dmg on reversals and jump-ins on most of his matchups and even his main punish combos, so the dmg reduction does really hurt, especially on jump-ins in AE. He has to use EX FK if he wants it to hurt. FK SH could also turn the match around as it did like around 300+ dmg. But in AE, it only does like 200 dmg which I think it’s a waste of hard-earned meter unless it could end the match or leave the opponent with less than 100 health. If he still had this dmg, I think Fei would be more cautious, especially in the corner where FK is important. I think if you compare the average dmg of Guile’s dmg done in his matches, SB would only be slightly more than/on par with FK with the majority of dmg coming from his normals.
I think it’s not really a good thing for Fei to try EX rekka to hit booms cos EX chicken wing pays off much more and Guile would be forced to take a guess on block.
To me, the main reason this match is hard against a good Fei is cos I always have this thinking that ‘wtf I got pushed into the corner so fast?’ lol
quick question re AE guile:
does ultra 1 still deal ~450 damage?
Still does 510 as far as I know
Also, Fei’s pokes are amazing
How much do you guys think air throw nerf hurt Guile in this?
I just want to display the differences in the match up with Fei Long.
Super Guile vs Fei: Risk:reward for Fei is 4.5:5.5. Even with Fei’s strong hitting normals and the chipping Rekkas, he still has a wall to face in the form of a mixture of Guile’s Epic Sonic Boom (which chips and build decent meter), Awesome diverse normals (can whiff punish Cr.HP from Fei) and Air throw (the main problem for heavy ex Chicken wing users)
AE Guile vs Fei: Risk:Reward for Fei is 2:8. Now Guile hits softer, he directly give Fei more chances to get in and score a chance. Now Guile builds meter like droplets of water, he cant escape via Flash Kick FADC, and must time the Lk flash kick so it wont trade with Fei’s relatively higher damage jump ins, since EX Flash kick does not add that much considering its cost. Now Focus attack lvl 1 crumples Guile after a sonic boom because CH in Sonic boom recovery. Heck now even EX Chicken Wing, which leads to 370-ish damage, closes the distance, passes through Sonic boom and still be safe on block, becomes more safer to use due to fail air throw range and due to poor punishing damage wise options.
I guess the match turned from 5-5ish to 4-6 at best, could be worse, since I have not played AE and based my assumption on the info gathered by what is left from the AMERICAN and MANLY players who still plays Guile, and was not seduced by other more broken characters. Props to all AE Guile players.
Question : I used to airthrow on reaction subconsciously during match. Can I apply the same with current air-throw nerf? I’m having phobia to perform airthrow on reaction right now…
I never considered that before, for me this will change it massively because I focus a lot, so Guile’s booms when he is in the corner are really risky now, which kinda neuters his defense there. The corner will be hell, which may just make the matchup in Fei’s favour like you said.
To you fei players: when you see Guile lose down charge and your in range, jump at him with an early j.mp. I swear to god, I can’t beat that thing for the life of me. Also, when you knock him down in the corner, go for j.mp “crossup”. This will rape guile. As for the general match in AE, Guile losing damage on U2, backfist, and flashkicks are BIG deals. Throwing backfists was already a risk as it is against a Fei with solid rekka / sweep based footsies. I agree that it used to be 6:4 Guile, but there’s no way it’s better than 5:5 now. The match dynamic also changes significantly when Guile is cornered.
The main time I notice the air throw nerf is during pre-emptive jump back + early air throw to escape jump pressure. For example, rufus divekicks you and goes for another divekick/jump forward attack… you hold up back after blocking the first dive kick and go for an early air throw. This no longer works. It seems like the “magic” of air throw is gone. People won’t be saying “WTF, how was I in air throw range?!” anymore like they used to. If you use it as an AA on reaction while jumping forward, it still works. It just won’t happen in that “magic” range anymore where it could just suck people up. It still serves it’s intended purpose though.
1.25 to 1.07 is a LOT, others airthrows are better. It was the best, but they could make a great move just avg, instead they overkilled it.
solid logic.
just didnt agree with some people who
1 look at nerf list
2 look at buff list
3 look at early tier list
4 call the match in fei’s favor
Does anyone know of ANY frame or hitbox changes in AE on any of his normals?
^^
I think UDK changed by a little to hit lows better? Not so sure since Super or AE but bazooka knee has lesser recovery than Vanilla. AE booms’ block stun are also lowered.
On a side note, I’ve been playing AE on Viewlix cabinets for some time now and sometimes will experience like half-2 secs of lag and you can physically see the screen slow down like there’s not enough ram/processor speed. Have you guys experienced it before? Does anyone know whether it’s the game itself that causes the lag or that the hardware isn’t good enough? I’ve never experienced this before in Vanilla.
Slinkun
After Ken hits with a hp SRK on the ground, a lot of characters can quickstand and front dash if he follows up with a crossup immediately. This is one of Ken’s bnb setups and I think it’s one of the good ways for Guile to escape since 9/10 Kens do it if they use hp SRK. It applies to Sagat’s crossup as well. It actually applies to any crossup that is done a bit late. Also possible to punish with c.hp on some of these jump-ins after knockdown.
It just came to my mind cos I been wanting to post this for some time but it just kept slipping my mind. I can’t really remember but it applies to some other characters who jump after reversal as well.
And you know the situation that Ryu/Ken like to use their jump-in hp to pressure Guile so that Guile can’t c.hp but have to block like 1-2 frames after SB. They would have to press the hp early so that it would stuff Guile’s c.hp. But it is weak to low attacks(tripguard) and Guile can target combo or start a c.lk combo instead of using c.hp. Crouching and throwing has been around for some time and I find that it’s quite risky when I tried it. It’s works like punishing DJ’s j.lk knee. Guile’s c.lk and c.mk does change his hitbox a little so he can avoid some of these jump-in attacks.
Thought this might be of use to Guile players as crossup is his weakness. Maybe you can add it to the matchup thread if there is enough info.
Right now, the only frame and hitbox changes we are aware of are the slower (and weaker) Ulta 2, less range on backfist (and damage), and that Guile’s upside down kick (close back or forward heavy kick) have lower body invincibilities on earlier frames (and got nerf damage LOL).
woahh, no one said anything about RANGE on backfist, just dmg. Its range was buffed from vanilla, they didnt take that back did they?
Range is the same on backfist. I noticed backfist is +4 on block now instead of +2 on block.
okay guys i noticed that one of the tidbits of the guile vs yun match is that guile has a hard time punishing yun hard for taking risks
my question:
if a yun is in your face and dps… can you backdash U1 or u2 (from blockstun) to punish him? is this practical?
i was thinking that if you timed it right…you could auto correct backdash U1 for a big punish on a blocked dp…comments?
Sweet, anymore tasty frame data changes? It was +4 in Vanilla on HIT. Then went to +2 on hit in super, are you sure that is on block? It was 0 on block in both V and S.
Also does anyone know what this means:
“we adjusted his meter gaining rate through the match.”
This was in the AE blogs, hopefully he gains MORE meter from normals since it was nerfed on booms?
ah crap, you are right. It’s +4 on hit instead of +2 on hit. I can only imagine that the +2 on hit for the SSF4 frame data is yet another mistake out of many mistakes in that POS strat guide.