Guile General Discussion: Go home and be a family man

Alkipot · April 30, 2016, 6:08am

This is my exact problem right now. My Guile is horrible atm but my Laura is good, even though I think Laura isn’t a solid character. I gotta adjust to sfv guile. I really don’t think he’s less than a high mid with his tools tbh.

chatshire · April 30, 2016, 6:12am

Wikum:

Sure_you_can:

I spose I can’t be that mad when even daigo is loosing to silvers with guile >.>

Everyone is pretty crap with him right now because on the surface he seems like SF4 Guile but he’s not like him whatsoever.

Azurean:

Yari:

Azurean:

As I said, almost no special-cancellable normals, in fact the only medium is cr.MP. So yeah, you can do cr.MP>SB>cr.HK… Except you wont have the charge unless you’ve been camping and the opponent walked into your cr.MP.

Well, cr.MP happens to be one of his best normals that always combos into SB (that goes into the loop) even at max range.

For the third time, I’m talking about his openers. I don’t care if you can put four cr.MP>SB in a combo, what openers does he have to start combos ? Spam his slow-ass Backhand Fist while crossing fingers for a CH ? Jump-in and hope your opponent misses his anti-air instead of just blocking ?

Azurean:

So you want him to be able to convert at max range into something big easily without resources? I’m sorry, this is just not sensible and you dont understand where his other strengths are if you think that “he’s absolute ass at confirming damage from ranged normals”, because there are characters who can’t even do that with resources, so in general I think Guile is fine on this department?

You would be right if you had said “he cant convert at max ranges without resources or counters”, but even then that wont make him any less capable than most characters.

“Confirming damage from ranged normals” =/= “confirming at max range”. I said “ranged normals” because I felt you could be hypocrital enough to show me his big combos from a st.HP - because you’re totally going to use a short-range, 7f start-up, -4 on block normal as a combo starter.
For the sake of discussion, I’ll define “confirm a mid-range normal” at the maximum distance where Ryu can do 2 st.MP in a row followed by a HP Shoryu. It deals 220 damage. At this distance, Ryu, Ken, Karin, Cammy, Chun-Li, Mika, Bison, Nash, Necalli, Vega can deal 200 damage or more. Birdie, Dhalsim, Laura,Rashid, deal slightly less (about 180). F.A.N.G and Zangief do a lot less, which is one of the factors that makes them bottom-tier. Right now, Guile’s confirm from a mid-range normal is F.A.N.G/Zangief’s level of awfulness.

I’ll repeat again, I’m not saying that Guile is good or bad. Just that this huge weakness should be taken in account when judging him - which feels a lot more important than “omg so much dmg from a corner jump-in + v-trigger + CA so godlike”.

Yea everyone has been focusing on this part too much. That combo is great and everything, but you’re only going to hit that combo on a stunned opponent (unless someone finds a good setup). If you get to the part you’ve stunned your opponent in a game, a simple bnb into CA will be enough to finish them off anyways.

you can do it off a CC f+hp in the corner

Wikum · April 30, 2016, 6:31am

chatshire:

Wikum:

Sure_you_can:

I spose I can’t be that mad when even daigo is loosing to silvers with guile >.>

Everyone is pretty crap with him right now because on the surface he seems like SF4 Guile but he’s not like him whatsoever.

Azurean:

Yari:

Azurean:

As I said, almost no special-cancellable normals, in fact the only medium is cr.MP. So yeah, you can do cr.MP>SB>cr.HK… Except you wont have the charge unless you’ve been camping and the opponent walked into your cr.MP.

Well, cr.MP happens to be one of his best normals that always combos into SB (that goes into the loop) even at max range.

For the third time, I’m talking about his openers. I don’t care if you can put four cr.MP>SB in a combo, what openers does he have to start combos ? Spam his slow-ass Backhand Fist while crossing fingers for a CH ? Jump-in and hope your opponent misses his anti-air instead of just blocking ?

Azurean:

So you want him to be able to convert at max range into something big easily without resources? I’m sorry, this is just not sensible and you dont understand where his other strengths are if you think that “he’s absolute ass at confirming damage from ranged normals”, because there are characters who can’t even do that with resources, so in general I think Guile is fine on this department?

You would be right if you had said “he cant convert at max ranges without resources or counters”, but even then that wont make him any less capable than most characters.

“Confirming damage from ranged normals” =/= “confirming at max range”. I said “ranged normals” because I felt you could be hypocrital enough to show me his big combos from a st.HP - because you’re totally going to use a short-range, 7f start-up, -4 on block normal as a combo starter.
For the sake of discussion, I’ll define “confirm a mid-range normal” at the maximum distance where Ryu can do 2 st.MP in a row followed by a HP Shoryu. It deals 220 damage. At this distance, Ryu, Ken, Karin, Cammy, Chun-Li, Mika, Bison, Nash, Necalli, Vega can deal 200 damage or more. Birdie, Dhalsim, Laura,Rashid, deal slightly less (about 180). F.A.N.G and Zangief do a lot less, which is one of the factors that makes them bottom-tier. Right now, Guile’s confirm from a mid-range normal is F.A.N.G/Zangief’s level of awfulness.

I’ll repeat again, I’m not saying that Guile is good or bad. Just that this huge weakness should be taken in account when judging him - which feels a lot more important than “omg so much dmg from a corner jump-in + v-trigger + CA so godlike”.

Yea everyone has been focusing on this part too much. That combo is great and everything, but you’re only going to hit that combo on a stunned opponent (unless someone finds a good setup). If you get to the part you’ve stunned your opponent in a game, a simple bnb into CA will be enough to finish them off anyways.

you can do it off a CC f+hp in the corner

does it have to be right in the corner?

chatshire · April 30, 2016, 7:52am

Wikum:

chatshire:

Wikum:

Sure_you_can:

I spose I can’t be that mad when even daigo is loosing to silvers with guile >.>

Everyone is pretty crap with him right now because on the surface he seems like SF4 Guile but he’s not like him whatsoever.

Azurean:

Yari:

Azurean:

As I said, almost no special-cancellable normals, in fact the only medium is cr.MP. So yeah, you can do cr.MP>SB>cr.HK… Except you wont have the charge unless you’ve been camping and the opponent walked into your cr.MP.

Well, cr.MP happens to be one of his best normals that always combos into SB (that goes into the loop) even at max range.

For the third time, I’m talking about his openers. I don’t care if you can put four cr.MP>SB in a combo, what openers does he have to start combos ? Spam his slow-ass Backhand Fist while crossing fingers for a CH ? Jump-in and hope your opponent misses his anti-air instead of just blocking ?

Azurean:

So you want him to be able to convert at max range into something big easily without resources? I’m sorry, this is just not sensible and you dont understand where his other strengths are if you think that “he’s absolute ass at confirming damage from ranged normals”, because there are characters who can’t even do that with resources, so in general I think Guile is fine on this department?

You would be right if you had said “he cant convert at max ranges without resources or counters”, but even then that wont make him any less capable than most characters.

“Confirming damage from ranged normals” =/= “confirming at max range”. I said “ranged normals” because I felt you could be hypocrital enough to show me his big combos from a st.HP - because you’re totally going to use a short-range, 7f start-up, -4 on block normal as a combo starter.
For the sake of discussion, I’ll define “confirm a mid-range normal” at the maximum distance where Ryu can do 2 st.MP in a row followed by a HP Shoryu. It deals 220 damage. At this distance, Ryu, Ken, Karin, Cammy, Chun-Li, Mika, Bison, Nash, Necalli, Vega can deal 200 damage or more. Birdie, Dhalsim, Laura,Rashid, deal slightly less (about 180). F.A.N.G and Zangief do a lot less, which is one of the factors that makes them bottom-tier. Right now, Guile’s confirm from a mid-range normal is F.A.N.G/Zangief’s level of awfulness.

I’ll repeat again, I’m not saying that Guile is good or bad. Just that this huge weakness should be taken in account when judging him - which feels a lot more important than “omg so much dmg from a corner jump-in + v-trigger + CA so godlike”.

Yea everyone has been focusing on this part too much. That combo is great and everything, but you’re only going to hit that combo on a stunned opponent (unless someone finds a good setup). If you get to the part you’ve stunned your opponent in a game, a simple bnb into CA will be enough to finish them off anyways.

you can do it off a CC f+hp in the corner

does it have to be right in the corner?

not exactly but the f+hp has to push them completely into+you need to be able to dash completely into it at least from what i can tell. so there is a bit of leniency on the spacing but i’m not sure exactly how much

OilyKoryuken · April 30, 2016, 9:52am

hey so i know hes new but are there some basic bnbs/frame postive stuff for him yet? thanks

syngin · April 30, 2016, 10:01am

There’s a fair bit of information already. Dantarion (and thus FAT) have the frame data, Gilley’s spreadsheet looks complete (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1976rt8B91PqVCeYJAmcnW1uwVJ0H03QJtV-dJC5ohL8/edit#gid=992184813), and PAN has uploaded a video of some early setups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amhcvaisGQ4

LLStoolJ · April 30, 2016, 10:05am

Still looking into frame stuffs but a nice frame trap I’m using is cr.LP, St. Hp or st.lp st.hp
Hits ALOT I believe it’s a 3 frame trap.

With regards to bnbs hes not really that tricky

Punishes
lk>mk, c.lp xx FK
s.hp, c.mp xx SB/FK
c.lp, c.lp xx SB/FK
c.lk, c.lp xx FK
df+hk, FK
s.mp, s.lp xx SB/FK

Crush Counter combos
CCs.hp, df+hk, FK
CCf+hp, dash, s.hp, c.mp xx SB/FK

Most of the time I end with FK to set up vskill light boom and go for the pressure or in the corner boom them to keep them standing

Hope this helps buddy.

OilyKoryuken · April 30, 2016, 10:23am

you may be right hes not tricky but never played guile and he’s charge ty

Yari · April 30, 2016, 10:53am

Ok framedata is out!

Looks like st.HP isnt as bad as I thought it was on block, and can even be made safe on a perfect meaty! This normal is probably going to be the frametrap/shimmy god if used correctly.

gilley · April 30, 2016, 12:10pm

ahem…
https://youtu.be/-APqbi9CkfQ

syngin · April 30, 2016, 12:12pm

Erk, so maybe you can shed light on the inputs for this - is it the same as SF4 or are you performing the whole CA after the dash?

Edit: n/m, saw your tweet. Time to start pricing up hitbox options

Wikum · April 30, 2016, 12:23pm

Playing this Guile on pad is going to give me arthritis lol.

I was looking for something to do as a shimmy tactic and I was really struggling to figure something out. I’ll have to try this out when I next load up the game.

MrPFloyd · April 30, 2016, 12:32pm

People found out about this the second he came out, just saying. Just cause people don’t post their tech doesn’t mean it wasn’t discovered.

gilley · April 30, 2016, 12:46pm

No shit. I found this the second he came out. No one knew what the motion was though. Seriously though, do you fucking go to everyone’s combo vids, tech vids, etc. and say the same thing?

syngin · April 30, 2016, 12:49pm

For real, what’s the point of this reply?

Whizard · April 30, 2016, 1:20pm

I would also like to know the motion would be really useful in fireball wars.

Whizard · April 30, 2016, 1:30pm

I’ve become slightly more accustomed to the character since I’ve stopped trying to rush people down, still struggling with gief a bit though.

Does anyone know any good tech to use against him? I’m having trouble with him armouring my stuff and I’m not sure I can punish that huge punch he does that has one hit of armour? I get hit by that a fair bit, I didn’t realise how far it went.

LLStoolJ · April 30, 2016, 2:14pm

The most success iv had via gief is literally abuse vskill booms.
His armour does jack against those and just play lame

LLStoolJ · April 30, 2016, 2:18pm

Dash sonic hurricane -

Charge back then f,n,f,b,f,b,f+p

Took me an hour to consistently do it and it works but I dnt really see the point when vtrigger goes as far and your ain’t dropping that in game

Hertog · April 30, 2016, 2:24pm

Guile feels great, can’t do any of his fancy combo’s online.
But his fundamentals are great, just always have a boom on the screen and work from there

His throw game is excellent, I love his walking speed and he got some pretty good normals.