RIGHT?
I wouldn’t say he’s the best, but top 5 easily.
Yes next Evo will be USFIV. Hopefully Gen will get nerfed to a reasonable state so Xian can’t just dominate everyone again with little strategy.
Gen is not in the top 5. Xian studied MATCHUPS, FRAMEDATA, 100% EXECUTION, and much more that you probably don’t understand. he has gotten here solely off of hard work. EVERY Match was a struggle and a bad match up and got counter picked many times but he stood by his main and defied all match ups. If you played gen, which you probably don’t, you would understand.
Every match was a struggle? Didn’t he go 3-1 then 3-0 against Tokido? Tokido, one of the best players in the world playing who most people probably consider the top character in the game?
Struggled every match, lol. Something doesn’t add up here. You don’t go 6-1 and say ‘oh yeah he struggled, blah blah blah’. Cut the crap.
when i said every match i meant every matchup. gen is at a disadvantage most of the time. where talking about akuma vs gen right now. are you srs o.O? Xian learned the akuma matchup and thats how he was able to beat tokido 6-1. Xian beat Tokido, not gen the character alone. he has been playing these people for 2+ years now. how can they nerf gen when he is the weakest he has ever been?
Not top tier. Been saying for over a year he’s a good character IF you have the execution down.
It’s Capcom.
Technically gen is the strongest in this iteration. The ability to cancel 4th hit of hands was by far the best gift. In vanilla gen can’t forget that and also the hard gekiro knockdown as well. His glaring weakness being the lack of wakeup options. Tokido decided to play zoning against Gen and that was a huge mistake, to beat gen u have to be in his face if not you’re dead
omfg now everyone wants to sit here and say Gen is “Tecnically” the best because he won an EVO!?!? if i recall arent you guys the same people who made that “Community Tier List” that states Gen is 27th? is this SRk admitting that you dont know anything about tier list’s and should just stop making them because the list clearly doesnt include what happens when somebody “masters” a character regardless of what their initial tier is. for you to sit there and NOW say Gen is top tier means that you are a BUM.
Show me another Gen Player who does this to anyone except the guy who stuck with his main throughout the series unlike half of the playsers on this planet. please and i will give you 1 million bison dorraz.
he learned the matchup and it was clear as day to everyone who is at the level to understand that its not a guarantee and in fact its not even his favor. he got read after read and his footsies were better.
[quote=“jebop, post:6, topic:162678”]
Not top tier. Been saying for over a year he’s a good character IF you have the execution down.
This guy makes the most sense and clearly understands that its all skill for him to win and now you guys wanna say Gen is top tier because i guess u want a change now so u dont run into it? LEARN THE GAME AND THEN COMPLAIN! i know the game and i play Evil Ryu and just dropped Cammy due to the realization that Tiers dont matter and SRK’s Tiers are hogwash because i remember u guys saying once that if you are lower than 15th on the list you arent tourney viable and cant win Majors and here Xian just Won CEO and EVO Back to Back. i know i ranted and havent posted for months on this site but this cant go unaddressed because u will ruin a game once again because u probably dont play and would like to “See” your favorites do better am i right?
Super was the weakest Gen has ever been. No TC’s, no vanilla mk-hands loop, no invulnerable ex-oga wake-up escapes, awful meter building, nerfed vanilla mantis jump arc.
I think you’re sleeping on Vanilla Gen a lot. Invulnerable wake-up option, insane meter building, vastly better stand mk that leads to a hands-loop, lower and faster mantis jump-arc that’s so low and quick it’s almost like a dive kick.
So what we have now is actually about a mid-grade Gen, if you can believe it.
Invulnerable wake-up option - I’d like to know what it was… because his Gekiro wasn’t throw invulnerable. That was changed in Super.
Insane meter building - Meter building is still great, always room for a super each round.
Vastly better stand mk that leads to a hands-loop - Replaced by FADC combos. Still great damage output. Most people say he has low damage output. Sorry wrong, I’ve compared top combos with characters like Honda and Akuma. Honda Gen was like neck n neck and Akuma, Gen was only like 30-40 damage lower. Loops were also replaced by better mix up options.
Lower and faster mantis jump-arc that’s so low and quick it’s almost like a dive kick - Pretty sure the Jump arc change was Crane.
Let’s look at what he got. Faster Crane Super. Better frames for Mantis s.MP. Gekiro no longer throw vulnerable. Over head a lot faster. And as the series went on, he got more options. So many people complain about how mindless Fei Long was and that all he really has to do is Rekka… Really, that’s all Vanilla Gen felt like to me.
It is sad how little people know about their own character. I know more about other people’s character then they do. Gen invulnerable wake-up option is performed by leaving the stick position neutral upon waking up.
Gen will be invincible for 1f which will trigger punishable option selects behind “just frame” safe jumps. I’ll not comment any further on this subject. I had to tell a B+ Blanka user this past Winter who was using Blanka since Vanilla that his character has an overhead move. I had to tell him multiple times before he actually chose to test it out in the Training Room. Gen can be invincible for 1f on wake-up.
- KaizenMaster
Ex empty Oga wake-up to far wall. And sorry, I should have clarified I meant as an invulnerable escape.
Meter building got okay again when Gen got TCs, but it was an absolute dog in SSF4.
I never complained about Gen’s damage, so I think maybe you just got a little off target there. Only saying mantis s.mk then was even better than the admittedly great current mantis c.mp as a BnB starting footsie tool. Just to devil’s advocate a little though, on the whole the loop was more dangerous than FADC combos because of the net meter gain. (On the other hand, the loop was also STUPIDLY difficult to do. I don’t miss it.)
Wait, was it? Doesn’t really matter which it was of course, but I freely admit I may have misremembered that.
I know you know a metric fuck-ton about the character, so respect to you sir, and I also happen to vastly prefer playing the current Gen to the vanilla Gen.
I just happen to think that Vanilla Gen was a far nastier character, and had he stuck around to be fully mastered by perfect players the world would be right to fear him.
Hell, ever play through Vanilla’s single player with Gen? Those win quotes. Psychotic.
VANILLA GEN SUCKED!!!
One question Kaizen, can you time your wakeup that you leave your stick in neutral for that one frame and then be sure that the attacker will wiff? even on wiff can you be fast to leave stick then block? NO GEN PLAYER does this, sheeesh
Sorry if I’m fuelling the fire here, but I’m pretty sure if people were asked where Gen tiered last week, they’d mostly be saying middle to bottom. In the same way, a lot of people, although they’d acknowledged he was climbing the ladder fast, didn’t have Xian down as a potential champion. Hindsight is funny like that. One championship doesn’t (shouldn’t?) make Gen next in line for the nerf gun.
i use the 1f invul for blocking all the time, and im pretty sure xian wouldnt overlook such important tech either just because its “hard”. kaizen is the wrong person to say that to ugo
Please ask them where all of them where when Xian was eliminated in pools last year, and I asked in this same forum wether Gen can win EVO and everyone was like nope
Nobody here was like Gen is OP an this is the SAME VERSION OF THE GAME.
Yeah, Kaizen is my good friend, but now I am kinda losing my temper a bit and I apologize in advance Kaizen, no disrespect intended, I just hate it that people just because Gen won evo is now like sounding like he is broken, where are the other Gen if he was sooo super good. the 1 frame thing works on AUTO safejumps but on manual safejumps if you try it then you are ballsy. I havent seen it in top play. if you have please show me.
@KaizenMaster007 I apologize for the outburst once again
I haven’t posted in a while mainly due to the fact that amidst all the great information, idiocy abounds in these forums like fucking malaria.
That being said… I’d like to point out that Gen is High-Tier.
Like Seth, Viper, Sagat are high tier.
He’s not top, like Cammy, Akuma or Fei Long.
Gen is not a low/mid tier character that somehow got buffed lately and turned into a high-tier.
Gen was always a high-tier character, undiscovered due to the basic nature of people not knowing nor caring to learn him, which happens a lot in… well, everywhere. We’re humans.
Adon was undiscovered until Gamerbee.
Seth was undiscovered, for the most part, until Poongko.
Cammy was pretty much ignored in Vanilla, like Sakura, even though they were both great already back then.
Hakan is, and I have no problem saying this whatsoever, the best character in the game when oiled. He’s garbage otherwise. Not gonna go deep on that one.
Point being: people have the shittiest notions of what’s good and what isn’t. It’s not going to change. No matter if you study ridiculous setups that you believe are fulcral to the usage of your favorite character or not.
Hell, I love vryu but please compare Haitani with Vryu’s usage of crazy obscure setups. Haitani uses 5% of Mak’s tech, and it’s more than enough to destroy people.
Because folks believe you need X to properly use a character.
Gen is basic as fuck. I learned him in less than 2 weeks a few years ago. The rest is matchup knowledge, and knowing your opponent, coupled with basic fundamentals (which you don’t really require when using certain characters, like Ibuki or Seth; if you’re playing online vortex only, that is). But, again, he’s not Top. He’s not broken. He’s fine as is. Just slightly annoying, but every character can be annoying in his own way. He doesn’t need nerfs, and he doesn’t need buffs.
He needs fixing. Stance swapping buffer issues are slightly annoying.
Tokido played the matchup terribly. Those fireballs, the lack of throw attempts… It was about as horrible as horrible could be. Xian is a brilliant player, mind you. But for the most part his opponents are still clueless to how they should deal with Gen. Gen is the character I play against the most, and is the character I’ve used the most as well. I’m not the best example. T.Hawk players would probably slap me in the face if they saw me playing against T.Hawks since I’m horrible against them. But that’s the thing: matchup knowledge makes a world of difference.
After all this time, people still didn’t study Gen hard enough. Even Sako, who I thought would know how to deal with his jumping arcs, or how to whiff punish his pokes, didn’t. He still tried to throw a fireball when Xian had super. Even if Xian didn’t hit the c.mp, he could simply LP super through the fireball. His opponents lacked knowledge.
That being said, I’m going back to my retirement from SRK. What follows is more dumb crap from enthusiastic players and/or trolls, and I can’t be arsed to feed caviar to pigs every 2 hours.
Retirement from SRK?