wolverine master is correct if you are playing with a tournament mentality. Ive lost momentum and lost matches from getting tac’s broken. Ive gotten happy birthday’d leaving only lvl 1 frank to fight for himself. Its a uphill battle if you dont know how to use lvl 1 frank.
SeattleKKF
Firebrand/Frank/Akuma
Also i would like to post. I was having an extremely hard time dealing with hawkeye, but i found that both firebrand and franks qcf+L+M+H will beat gimlet. neither of them stop hyper animation, firebrand keeps spitting fire and hits hawk, and frank’s cart will asorb gimlet and hit hawk.
I wasn’t saying this to be negative but really just to bring up the advantages of some DHCs for Frank.
i understand what you are saying. I am not saying that players should not learn how to play frank at level 1. I’m just saying, that he shouldn’t be started on point. that’s what i’m saying here. your team is even firebrand/frank/akuma. I’m guessing u still start firebrand or would u prefer to open your opponent up with a level 1 frank?
wolverine master, no worries bro I appreciate your input, but do you start frank on point? I know that it is important to know how to play him at level 1. situations can arise where that happens – what i’m saying is, how effective are u guys at using him at level 1? Effective enough to start him over other options at the point slot?
Take this example:
You start firebrand, and to the best of my knowledge, you can’t do 900k with him. so u effectively cannot kill 85% of the cast with him. Meaning, you are going to have to open your opponent up twice. right? where is the harm in going for a TAC and having it countered… you weren’t going to kill him anyway. The other option is I play level 1 frank west on point and… fish for a cr H? His normals arent’ exactly the best. I dont see why he’d be better on point than any other option backed by his shopping cart assist.
If there is a situation where a character can be killed without using a TAC, then kill the character. that should be clear. But if not, then you have a few options.
In all of those options where your opponent’s character doesn’t die, one thing stays the same – They still get a chance to escape incoming mixup. At least with the TAC, you either kill a character, or you get super mode frank. Its of course up to you guys to weigh the benefits. Clearly there are times when TACs are unwise (eg when you can kill a character without it). But, if you are hitting a Thor with a 32 hit firebrand combo scaled to shit, where is the harm in ending it with a TAC instead of a hyper?
The thing though is that a failed TAC forces you to make your way in again.
…but so does not KILLING an opponent with your initial combo…
Don’t worry, I don’t take anything personally, we’re all here to improve/learn.
Anyways for the Doom players out there (don’t know if people know this), if you have him on point, you can do any one of his loops and end with :s: j:m:,j:m:,:f::h: xx photon array then DHC to Survival Techniques (while at the peak of super jump height). Frank should whiff the super and they should be at a hardknock down state, giving you enough time to take a pic. It grants lvl 4 when you mash the super. Don’t know if it works mid-screen but since it’s Doom, this shouldn’t be a problem. You can get to lvl 5 with right the assists. A way to know if you’re doing it right is if you hear him say “Dodge Frank” when you DHC.
Edit: I should mention that when I was doing this, I let the 
s hit twice each time. I don’t know if that will make or difference or not but it’s something to keep in mind.
this is good tech! i am gonna try this out!
That is correct. For that reason most people go for resets or other mix ups that can open up an opponent again. Using TAC has high reward while risking getting pushed to the other side of the screen in case of failure.
Maybe its just me, but I really dont see how you guys can depend on a TAC. The only time you actually catch me doing this is when I try to fly with sentinel during a laggy match and it fails.
But to answer your question, YES, Yes I do start frank on one of my teams. Reason is if I hit you its a guaranteed level 3 frank, midscreen or corner. Encouraging people to feel like its ok to TAC is also giving them enough reason not to spend more time in the lab with their team.
Funny thing is, firebrand is my anchor on my team of frank/nemesis/firebrand. Its an all new team but If anyone in here knows me at all is that all I do is combos. All I know is team synergy. See, from my experience sir, if you give someone the easy way out, they’ll take it. Especially for UMvC3, no one wants to learn anymore. They depend on combo vids to show them the way. When people were using MSP and THRAX in MVC2, I was using spiderman/storm/hood and still kicking their ass. I can only give MY opinions on things and I’m not the type to speak unless I know what I’m saying.
Of course level 4 frank is Important. Question is, how guaranteed is your way of getting there one shot?
What happens to your team if I snap out firebrand? What if I kill him on my first hit?
Why should you get rewarded with a meter or taking mine away because you couldn’t find a better way to bring in frank?
Would you like me to make a tiny vid to show you what I’m talking about man? You don’t have to see things my way, don’t disregard it either.
I’ll make a quick video showing different ways to level up frank throughout my 2 teams.
Another thing, stop picking characters you like fellas. Pick characters that WORK FOR YOU. Wolverine is my main in any game he’s in but he doesn’t compliment frank at all. So if you’re have a little trouble with your frank team, try phishing for other team mates.
If you have at least a level 2 frank, BARREL ROLL works against gimlet. If you do LUMINOUS BODY with firebrand after the gimlet flash, gimlet would not hit. Give it a world, see what I’m talking about.
u are confusing what im saying. if i start frank with firebrand and doom i can get levek 4 off of 2 bars with no tac. I can play this game, as im very sure u can as well. im just saying, why would i gimp my team by starting a character with bad normals when i caj start a better character up front… it has absolutely nothing to do about TACS, execution or being a scrub… personally i like the shopping cart assist and that is one reason y frank is second for me. im not saying u are wrong – u have a valid reason and good team synergy im sure.but please dont write off another valid team order or tactic. let me ask u, without assistd, which character opens opponents up tye easiest in your team? If u say frank west is the best for that job thrn by all means tell me what your strategy is for getting a hit on an opponent at lrvel 1.
I agree it is very important ti know how to play him at all levels but i disagree that his best spot is as point.
Really liked reading your posts here. I was just wondering about the same thing when it comes to building a Frank team. Here’s the one that I’m trying to main right now: Firebrand, Frank, Captain America - it’s similar to your team.
Right now my game plan is to land a Firebrand BnB > TAC > Frank Lv 3.
Now on matches where I’m actually able to pull this off, I’m typically very successful. I usually don’t bother leveling up beyond 3. But as you pointed out Wolverine Master, on matches where I don’t TAC into Lv 3 Frank, things get a bit more difficult.
My question:** what is your game plan with a Lv 1 Frank?** Mine right now is really scrubby. I have a pretty good BnB that does good damage (as good as Firebrand! 500K+) but as you, or someone else pointed out, his normals are eh and it’s hard to get things going without at least his roll. My other Lv 1 option is to Knee Dive > Shopping Cart Hyper > DHC back to Firebrand or Cap.
Any input would be great, thanks!
Here’s a bit of what I do with Frank as lower levels. Snapshot has a deceptively large and invisible hitbox so I do use it from a distance. Especially since landing 5 will get Frank to level 2 without having to combo. That is something I don’t really see people exploiting. Other than that, his j.S, j.M, and his j.dh are pretty good as far as the air goes. I’ve even been able to convert air to air j.Ms into combos. On the ground I tend to either look for st.M, cr.M, or cr.H to start combos and that’s not considering help from my assists. Another important bit of strategy to remember is to go for snapshots at lower levels if you have an assist that hits multiple times and are unable to get a full combo from it.
Good ideas with the snap shot! Lv 1 Frank is just as good at doing damage as Firebrand on my team - so typically if I can’t get a TAC from Firebrand to Frank I just fight with him at Lv.1 and don’t try to get too fancy at getting him to level up.
Although I have this question to Frank users (I’ve only been using him for less than a week): is his game plan really all about the Roll? I’ve been practicing on CPU and a few players online, but it seems that he’s the best when you Assist+Roll to mixups. Is that pretty much the go-to strategy for Lv.2+ Frank?
Here’s a bit more of a breakdown of how I feel about my team in their order: Firebrand/Frank/Cap
Firebrand - I use him on point because he’s the only one on the team who can build combos high enough to TAC > Frank into Lv 3. The downside with him on point is he has low HP and I would prefer him on Anchor since he’s by far the nastiest of my team with Lv 3 X-Factor with his speed boosts helps him start combos,
Frank - If I manage to get him into Lv 3, things are pretty good. I like to use his Knee Dive > Tools H to start combos when I’m at Lv 3. If I’m not then I just look for combos starting with c.M and c.H (is this highly punishable on block?). I also like to as I said earlier, Lv1 Knee Dive > Blue Light Hyper > DHC out.
Cap - I would prefer him and Firebrand to switch spots on the team, since I feel he’s probably a better point character than anchor. He probably has the best assist on my team (Shield Slash) but that’s not saying much
I feel like my team has pretty good synergy but not great assists. I use Shopping Cart, but that’s very punishable, and Cap’s Shield Slash is also punishable because he’s out there for so long.
I think it’s important to have as many bases as possible covered.
If you’re playing frank, and legitimately are playing HIM (i.e., not just an assist character), than your team should have:
A way to level him up to at least level 3 using no meter, or tac. This is the first and foremost plan, and most important to have. If you don’t have a way to level up frank off a hit, guaranteed, no meter, your doing it wrong. Bonus points for hard tag setups that let you skip playing with level 1 frank entirely (haggar comes to mind).
If you use THC to level him up, it should be an instant level 4+ frank. Meter is important, don’t waste on less than instant level 4. This isn’t too bad a method, since there’s nothing whiffing, and can level up frank off a grab pending your partners
Ditto to DHC’ing. Honestly, I hate DHC’ing because it’s an outright waste of meter. You’re blowing a bar to level up frank. And nothing else. Terribly inefficient. Still, always nice to have a backup plan.
TACs, due to their unreliable nature, should be a last ditch effort in leveling. Now, this is a really attractive option if it’s successful, since it’s the most damaging option, builds more meter, can take meter from the opponent, AND levels up frank. But due to the downsides should it fail, you shouldn’t really be attempting this often.
It’s SO easy to get frank to level 3 in one combo, I can’t believe it’s a problem for some people. My team gets me a level 4 frank, no meter or tac, if I hit you with any of my non anchor characters.
… Can you give some examples? I understand that if you’re using Dante, or there’s at least 1/4 of the cast who are “Frank Friendly” when it comes to giving him time to get snapshots in or assist who can build up the combo meter. I guess the issue is getting the most of out Frank using the team that I WANT to use, rather than just using characters who go well with him.
What’s your Level 3 Frank only combo? I’ve seen a lot of combos that rely on the “Air L Tools” loop 2 - 3 times, but I’ve never been able to get in two reps… 
you have the same mentality as me. I want to use certain characters with frank to match the costumes (ie yellow firebrand/yellow frank). That kills some of the options we have in terms of strategy to level up. But your team can easily get to level 4 frank even with frank on point.
Frank: L,M,H,S sj M, M, H, S land jump qcf+H, land S, M, M, H, S. land shield slash assist+qcf+S xx qcb+atk atk. DHC into luminous body (firebrand). HARD TAG frank. qcf+S. ding level 4 for 2 bar.
I have no idea what these guys mean by “legitimately” playing frank. When you play phoenix do you only legitimately play her when you start her on point? Clearly knowing how to play her when she is not dark is not important, but it is also not ideal. Frank fits the same boat. yeah learn how to play him at lvl 1 cuz shit happens. But why start the game with his mediocre offense (because that is what it is at lvl1) when u can start people on your team that are A) better offensively B) can benefit from his shopping cart
I have no idea why so many people automatically look at TACs as “you don’t know how to do regular combos”. I’m saying do regular combos. know your options to level up frank, especially with cap and firebrand, they are there. But don’t toss aside one of the best ways to get him to god mode.
Adam, you would know very well because u play firebrand,… you can’t kill shit with him and 1 or even 2 bars. all the will do is put you into a position where you have to respond to your opponent’s tech roll. A TAC into frank west will get you instant level 4 for 2 bars (and you even built at least 1 of those during the combo). A TAC into modok will KILL EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME.
I understand if your point character is captain america or hulk or any character than can do insane damage and kill a character. Why risk an exchange when you can kill a character by just finishing the combo? I’m not arguing that point. I’m saying that A) frank doesn’t belong on point if you have better offensive tools B) if you have no cheap way of getting level 4 through synergy and TAC is your only choice, and your damage output won’t kill a character, then by all means GO FOR A TAC.
For me personally, a 66% chance to get Frank to level 4 is better than the 10% increase in damage and possible mixup I would get if I just finished the combo with firebrand.
I myself use dormammu, but it’s super easy with most characters in the game.
c.l, c.m, c.h, s, MMH, H tools of survival, c.m, c.h, S, MMH, down + H, snapshot is 16 hits alone. With ANY assist to continue it and get a second snapshot, you have instant level 3. If you happen to have a team with two assists that continue combos, a third shapshot gets frank to level 4. Easy peasy.
What characters do you use? Because it’s likely one of them has something that can help frank.
For the record, I am ALL FOR skipping level 1 frank. I made a thread literally called “skipping level 1 frank” for crying out loud. I think it’s the best way to play him, with intent to skip him to level 3+ somehow.
I just don’t want to sacrifice anything or risk anything to do it. TAC’s seem great, but if you have a better method of leveling at your disposal (and you SHOULD), why risk it?
In certain situations I would say it’s not a waste of Meter. I do a Lvl 1 Frank combo to a level 3 Survival Techniques. DHC Dante Devil Trigger. Hard tag Frank for one more pic to Level 4. If I have a third meter it’s back to Survival Techniques. Now the Devil Trigger is still on for Dante. If Frank dies, I have a triple jump or fly to escape mix ups.
I just read what you put for THC. I guess this does get me instant level 4 so it’s worth it. But I’ll sacrifice the level 4 if I know DT Dante can continue the combo for a kill.