Morrison is constantly on acid. He takes acid before he takes a dump.
But hey, it’s obviously working for him. I swear by All Star Superman. When I say DC doesn’t know who Superman is, Grant Morrison has proven himself to be one of the few exceptions. He gets it.
yes he does. for an example just check out our worlds at war. everyone is like oh noes and superman is like… fuck, well i guess i gotta do what i gotta do. then he gains 100 levels and destroys.
I would argue that the bats has more willpower than Superman. Batman is someone who often has to fight through more adversity, he has to work through pain much more than Superman.
Superman shrugs off almost everything he is hit with. (For a guy faster than a speeding bullet, it seems every cook with a ray gun can shoot the guy.) Also I think if you took Superman’s powers away, he wouldn’t go to the lengths Bruce has to be a superhero. Surely I’d see him donating his time and money to help people, but I don’t know if he has the overwhelming urge to wipe out crime entirely. (As I understand that the notion of dedication is different than willpower, I would say it at least contributes when trying to speculate on someone’s willpower.)
Superman holding back does show a lot of willpower, but I would say much of it is because of his disposition. He can hurt and kill people by accident, as mentioned before, so he’s more cautious not necessarily because of willpower, but out of concern for those around him. I would say holding back when someone is provoking you takes willpower, but just holding back to not hurt someone doesn’t.
For example, if you cautiously hold an old vase, that’s not willpower, you just don’t want to break it. However, if someone breaks your vase on purpose and you refrain from breaking them, that’s willpower.
Has Superman ever had a Lantern ring in continuity? Was he able to use it?
I think Batman also gets the nod in the willpower section because he is more apt to make decisions based on the greater good, regardless of the consequences. I’m not saying Superman will not, he will and does, but Superman often overestimates his ability, he tries to save everything by himself. Batman may understand that in order to achieve X, Y bad thing has to happen, and it takes an amount of willpower to bring yourself to make tough decisions.
I think both are strong willed, but I think Batman, by the fact that he actually has to push through more stuff (physical pain, trying to fill the gap between him and superpowered people) almost necessitates him having more willpower.
this a good discussion. wish i read more dc. but i would give it to bats for the simple fact that he still decided to be batman after bane broke him. it took him a while yes but he came back. also when supes goes out against darkseid he forgets all about his surroundings.
When Superman lost all of his powers in One Year Later not only did he stand up to crime when he could they even gave him a copy of the GL ring for a while made from Hal’s real one. Don’t know how everything turned out due to DC doing their very annoying ‘You must buy all 5 Superman titles for 3 months to get the full story’ thing they like to do with Superman.
The problem with Superman is the idea that he’s always right. I mean come on how the fuck is he always right?
And nobody can beat him.
Everyday when I wake up, I’m crushed with depression to see another morning, saddened that I didn’t die during the night because I don’t have the courage to put me out of my shameful misery myself.
Carpet Lint’s willpower: -2
LOL, I think I finally understand this thread though.
At first I was thinking why DC or anyone would put out a rating scale on something so ridiculous as willpower - I thought it was some lame column like the type Wizard used to do. But I think I vauguely recognize the scale now…
I think it may be from the old DC roleplaying game. Like table top - paper and pencil, Dungeons & Dragons style. And willpower was one of the character attributes, which explains why there’s an empirical numbering system for it.
I hope that’s what it is, because otherwise I’m going to look like a huge fruit if it isn’t.
I’m not even going to lie here - I experimented very briefly with this stuff back when I was a misguided youth in Grade 5. I’m not proud of it, and I’m hoping that we can just accept it and move on. One of our friends got a hold of the RPG sourcebook, and admittedly it was really fun to make characters. …we just didn’t have anyone to think up campaigns for us, so we never played. We just made a bunch of characters.
It’s cool though - you get a set amount of “HERO POINTS” to build your character with, and you buy superpowers and skill points (ie. willpower) and all that crap with them. And if you went into debt with your HERO POINTS, you could buy “drawbacks” which were like weaknesses (ie. weakness to kryptonite) that would credit you with additional HERO POINTS.
I exploited the system. Like you could have a weakness to a certain type of material or substance, and depending on how common it was, you would be awarded more points. For example, kryptonite is very rare so you only got a couple points back. But like…wood or the colour yellow, for example (like Sentinel and Green Lantern) were really common, so you got tons of points back. So I had this one character that was like suspectible to like styrofoam, which I successfully argued was really common. It didn’t fit in with the rest of the character at all and I couldn’t explain it, but it was still awesome.
You could also buy like “loss of sense” or something as a drawback, and I think they were envisioning like Daredevil’s lack of sight or Echo’s lack of hearing or something when they designed it. Instead, we all had lack of smell and taste, which gave us the same amount of points, but aren’t exactly actual weaknesses in a superhero comic book context.
…anyway, enough with that dumb stuff. Let’s just accept that I did all sorts of weird shit I regret in my sorid past, and move on.
Batman definitely has the most willpower out of anyone though. You think it’s easy training for 20 hours a day, building new inventions 10 hours a day, and spying on other heroes for 30 hours a day? Add in the daily 2 hours of sleep and all the hours he spends as managing Wayne Enterprises and banging hot supermodels…I mean you think it’s his superpower to live 83 hour days versus a regular man’s 24 hour days? That’s ALL SKILL, BABY.
Superman just wakes up in the morning, takes in some sun, and boom - he’s got the strength to lift split a planet in half with a punch.
Batman wakes up and he’s just a normal guy. He’s gotta go on the treadmill and run a bit, maybe do some free weights - you know, all that. How often do you comic book nerds work out? You can’t even imagine the sheer power of will I have to exert whenever I need to lift myself off the couch and away from another Legally Blonde marathon on TBS whenever I go running. Now think of that…but multiplied like ten thousand times over, because Batman’s physical training regiment is probably like a 100 times tougher than mine, and his life is like 100 times better to live in than mine.
I think that’s all that needs to be said on the Batman vs. Superman willpower debate.
Superman is so boring…the only card they can play with him to revitalize the character is to kill Lois, and make him emo/crazy/vengeful. Lets see how good his willpower will be after that.
Captain America, if he were a DC character, would have instantly gotten a ring. Uber-will resides in him
he doesnt need ring.
his jobber aura is second only to the mutant ability of Squirrel girl
No one has ever jobbed to Captain America EVER. You take that shit back right now. He beats them all with a patented invincible 1940’s American-style JUDO BOXING technique - there is no jobbing involved.
Every single fight that Cap has won was because he either hit them TOO HARD, or TOO FAST, or a combination of both. Don’t you ever talk trash about Cap again.
What yall doing talking about Marvel characters? They can’t wear a GL ring because such a thing doesn’t exist in 616. What next can Batman pick up Mjolnir? :looney: Dern Marvel / DC crossovers making things like this possible. 
To weigh in I think Superman has more willpower than Batman. He hasn’t broken Lois in half boning her. Hell everything he does involves willpower / control if you start to think about it. That’s not saying Batman doesn’t have will power, but he can cut loose most of the time without worrying about killing people while Supes has to stop short of punching people’s heads off, not involving himself in World Wars where he can turn the tide in a second, not zapping some guy who cuts him off on the highway and so on. I can tell you if any of us had Superman’s powers we’d be ruling the world.
Could Batman wear the ring? Don’t know, don’t care honestly. Him not having powers is what makes him great. If they ever did an arc where he wore the ring I think that would be a big mistake. If they need a willpower explanation to stop this from happening than so be it.
lmao I musta had a memory lapse or something. Forgive me :looney:
i can understand if people who don’t read a lot of superman can find him boring, but you can blame that on the current writers or arc. i love reading supes arcs where he’s pushed or he has someone close to him threatened. we all know how powerful dude is, so it’s great seeing him unleash all of that power on assholes.
examples of these situations are:
or worlds at war
superman & batman 8-13
superman arc starting @ superman 657
etc
on topic: batman has more will power (imo) than hal but i think people are sleeping on kyle (no homo). he did contain a sun going supernova.
now in regards to bats and supes will power comparison. if we consider superman controlling his powers by will power, then yes i think he has more willpower than bats; otherwise, bats takes it.
@sano: yeah dude. i’d be posted up in the middle of the sun, like from dc 1,000,000, and fly around space being a badass while taking over planets.
To tell you the truth I like Batman more than Superman but when it comes to these situations I try to put the character I like best aside and try to think about it for a bit and put myself in their shoes regardless of who I like better. Not that I am right or if there really is a right answer anyway. Especially considering even within any continuity, characters change from writer to writer, it’s one of those things that happens. Cooke’s Batman isn’t Miller’s Batman, or Kane’s, or Dini’s, or Morrison’s or whoever. At best you can take what the character represents to you and go with that.
Besides, if there was never any Superman there would be no Batman, no Green Lantern, no Marvel superheroes, nothing. Who knows, maybe this forum wouldn’t exist. You gotta respect that.
Lint - I work out about 4 times a week, sometimes more than that and sometimes less. Not to become a muscle head or anything, in general it’s health reasons and my metabolism isn’t what it used to be. It takes some willpower I’ll grant you but there are much more difficult things to do. Once you get into the pattern of doing something and you have a routine these things become a lot easier, hard to explain but it’s more dedication than willpower.
On top of that once you get accustomed to doing excercise and you don’t do it for a while your body actually feels pain from not doing it, so there is that too.
I can’t speak for Batman though because he’s insane anyway.
This forum would still exist. We just wouldn’t be talking about Superman’s willpower. We’d be talking about Donald Duck or Uncle Scrooge.
I am confident that is the case in an alternate, parallel reality.
Disney Afternoon vs. Capcom 2 would still be played at Evo. :looney:
And since everyone would know about Scrooge and Donald like me in that world I’d become an expert on Archie comics oh yeah.
He’s not. That’s why he’s a great character.
Wrong. There’s a difference between the only card they can play and the only card they will play. There are literally endless possibilities for a character like Superman. He is a far more versatile story vehicle than, say, Batman. But when you have a team of retard writers who insist on writing him exactly the same way every friggin’ time (not to mention a legion of retard readers who demand that he be written the same way every time), then of course it’s going to get boring, stupid, ridiculous, etc.
I dunno man…what would u do to revitalize the character. The Hyperion approach (where he realizes hes just a puppet for the gov and from now on serves his own personal agenda?), not very fitting for Mr Boy Scout. The only superman comic I enjoy, is of course all-star. Anyways, dont want to derail the original topic so ill form another thread pertaining to this issue
Superman is a hard character to write well, everytime you see a group of villians who don’t have kryptonite attack him, it’s hard to build any suspense. We all know Bats, and Supes always win in the end, but you don’t get those “well how is he going to get out of this?” situation as much with Supes, since he usually can just punch his way out.
Though I’ve always enjoyed stories that focused on the relationships between heroes, some of my favorite stuff is things that have nothing to do with saving the world. Like I’ve always liked Captain Marvel Supes interactions, well, I like them up to the inevitable fight, but it’s interesting to see the too interact.
Has there ever been stories where Batman had superpowers?
One thing I will say about Superman is that Clark Kent is much more developed than Bruce Wayne. Mainly this is because no one does anything with Bruce Wayne at all.
No one gives a damn about Bruce Wayne, it’s all about Batman. If you met Bruce Wayne in real life, anything that came out of his mouth would be a lie, he’d bang your cousin and dump her and laugh it off. Show up in some tabloid as a rich Playboy who spends all of his daddy’s money. You’d hate that God Damn Bruce Wayne, he is too much of a disguise that Batman puts on, so much so he’s not even real.
Not that they have made leaps and bounds with Clark’s character, in many ways he has the same damn problem Bruce does but he is married and you generally care about Lois, Olsen and White along with the going ons of the Daily Planet. No one gives a crap about anyone Bruce Wayne knows unless they become a Batman villain, or even what goes on at Wayne Industries. Lucious Fox, honestly, do you really care what happens to him?
Batman Begins did a lot to build up Bruce Wayne and make him real outside of a ‘disguise’ Batman wears, I wished I’d see that in a comic.
What I would love to see is a story arc just about Bruce Wayne. He SERIOUSLY needs a personality. At least a good six issues or so to really build up Bruce Wayne in one of his many rotating titles.
I just feel that once you care about a character’s human identity the more you will care about him when he’s in costume. This is one of Joe Quesada’s rants about Batman and I don’t agree with him about everything but on Batman I’m gonna have to agree.
As of right now I, well does anybody give a crap about Bruce Wayne? I’m just saying…