“I know you are, but what am I?”
lol. Sorry, didn’t mean to get involved. Just thought that was funny.
That was a pretty cool combo actually. Tokido’s really been labbing it up, learning legit DPX combos and shit
this thread? I dunno. but I digress, it’s gotten a little bit out of hand. inb4thelock?
The answer is obviously no. People have found ways and strategies against Phoenix, but there will always be instances of failure. If the Evo committee ever decided to ban Phoenix, it would just prove what’s been lingering in all our minds: The fighting game community has become nothing but lazy pussies that would rather cry for a patch than level up.
It would also hand Tokido more satisfaction than US dollars could pay for.
Murderface becomes Trollface.
I wanted to see more marlin pie.
Still does not mean none of them has been in the lab already.
The game has been out since February and no one has really developed solid Anti-Phoenix strategies. There are those that exist out there, I know quite a handful of them but they are not 100% guaranteed or consistent. The dev team haven’t been patching the game for obvious imbalances so what is there left but 1. institute a player-based balance by banning the character or 2. have the developer patch the game. Which one would you prefer? I’d prefer the latter.
If they were 100% guaranteed, she would be useless and a huge waste of 5 bars.
There are very good anti phoenix strats, people need to to upgrade their tech.
PROFOUND SADNESS.
Has there ever been something like that in the fighting game world to begin with? A solid “if I use this and you use that I win?” There is still randomness in fighting games, in Marvel especially if nowhere else. I have a number of Anti-phoenix strategies for my team, does that mean I shit on every Phoenix team I play? No, and I shouldn’t be.
Or for the love of god there are also several characters that can really force her to play outside her comfort zone in Ryu, Akuma and Dormammu. If Phoenix pisses you off so much pick one of them.
Some of T. Hawk’s matchups in ST are pretty one-sided, thanks to that ridiculous option select. A good enough player can avoid getting knocked down in the first place, though.
There’s probably some more messed up stuff in anime games.
im sorry but i legit LOL-ed at the 100% guaranteed thing.
i dont think people would play for money if ANYTHING were 100% guaranteed.
it feels boring enough seeing as how seeing certain characters on the screen is like a 90% chance of a touch of death, 100% and it wouldn’t be a game but a weighted coin toss and you know where the weight is, or going second in tic tac toe against anyone who knows how to lock the other out.
i’d also love to say
stop whining for phoenix to be worse and instead whine for others to be better.
its already an uphill battle for a phoenix player *from *the get go, no hypers, 1 assist, even if you can use phoenix how do you risk that when EVERY CHARACTER can beat her from one random L, in a LMH series connecting. being snapped in constantly, dealing with people chipping you, projectile shooting to death. She takes 5 bars to be useful to someone who has some semblance of an understanding of her, it takes x-factor level 3 to make her this comeback god, but 9/10 she needs it. she gets no assists, her team mates couldn’t burn hypers to make their bnb’s a bit stronger, unless her team is self sufficient, it becomes problematic. take away too many tools and she goes from this unethical super being into “lol phoenix is worse than (insert who you believe to be worst character currently)”
I really enjoy the fact that technology needs to be developed against dark phoenix, but i definitely feel once something 100% comes along that strategy will likely work against a number of problem characters and that “solution” will be on every team and will be the next broken thing
AND Once the problem of the week is over everyone’s just going to complain about someone else. the whining will likely continue until everyone is as viable as hsien-ko and arthur sans assists.
tl;dr
yes shes a problem, but stop acting like the sky fell, nothing 100% will ever come and phoenix is not as rampant as everyone claims, shes not on every team anyhow. it takes at least basic knowledge to use her and unlike wolvy you can’t simply mash out her combos until the feathers come into play, which requires dark phoenix anyhow.
Force her to play outside her comfort zone =/= work against her. You guys keep talking about technology against Dark Phoenix, but what technology has better than a 50/50 chance against a good Dark Phoenix? Beam hypers from Ryu/Ironman can work (Akuma’s definitely won’t) but a good Dark Phoenix player wouldn’t baited into it easily. There are some talk of Ammy’s slowdown working but I honestly think that it worked against Tokido because he was surprised and it won’t work if he defends well during the slowdown. The Spiderman/Tron resets against Dark Phoenix don’t seem to be realistic in tournament settings. Only Dormammu is realistically good counter against Dark Phoenix. And we are talking about Dark Phoenix; snapbacks are highly overrated as a tool against Phoenix.
They’re not going to ban Phoenix unless they ban Wolverine first. LOL.
Dark Phoenix would still do fine with 10 seconds of XF instead of that ridiculous 20 seconds.
The problem with Phoenix isn’t just Phoenix. People who think Phoenix by herself is a problem dont understand how the game works probably…at all. This is a team game. You make teams stupid…not characters. What makes Phoenix stupid is that when you pair her with the right characters it’s obviously apparent that nothing in the game will be better than that said team with Phoenix on it. The chances and odds you get to win with some high ass tiers in the front and Phoenix in the back is ridiculous. You’re not losing to characters anymore, you’re just losing to the game. Now that characters like Wolverine can turn on XF1 and crumble your whole team from the front Phoenix just gives your team extra lives that other teams dont have access to. Wolverine needs like one assist to run down a team and then Phoenix in the back. Wolverine still runs people down even without an assist sometimes. Shit like that you’re just not going to be able to consistently beat with anything else with how strong XF3 DP is in the back should Wolvie get hit and killed first.
Don’t expect this shit to change until Super MVC3. The main number one problem with this game is that XF at its current state is not viable for thinking competitive play and messes with the tiers too much. XF turns matches into gambles in a game where you usually have a hard time surviving a long combo as it is. No technology that will be discovered against Dark Phoenix will work until Super MVC3 because that technology will be defeated by the gamble of 20 seconds of XF3 which you can’t use any strategy or thought against other than running into a corner. You can’t fight what you can’t touch.
The only chance for technologies to beat Dark Phoenix is ruined by XF. The odds of winning in XF3 DP beat technologies. When pretty much all of the technologies to beat Dark Phoenix with XF lie before regular Phoenix gets 5 meters, something is wrong. The game is too much about odds and not enough about fighting.
If EVO banned Phoenix they would be a laughing-stock, and I would hope legit players would boycott the tourney for being so pathetic.
The problem isn’t with Phoenix, or even Wolverine right now. It’s X-factor and it always has been.
You’re completely wrong. Akuma’s beam super is one of the fastest startups in the game beating ALL of Dark Phoenix’s ground options. She can’t teleport safely because Tatsumaki eats it with any projectile spam she has and combos into super. If you XFC 3 with both on neutral position I would give Akuma advantage in odds especially since you’re likely sitting on bar and she isn’t. As for snapbacks being an overrated tool I don’t think it’s a great trade off but Phoenix definitely deals with snapbacks worse than anyone else out of the cast simply because you don’t need meter to kill her. People who think her low life doesn’t matter because “everyone dies in one combo” either don’t play the game or play it very poorly. Meter management to kill off a character is a huge factor in MvC3 barring XFC. The fact that you need neither to kill regular Phoenix is a big reason why most good players don’t feel safe with her on their team.
I think the Phoenix problem comes from the fact that she can be added in a team of two strong characters who can build meter well and are not afraid to burn it to kill characters and act as a crutch when the initial strategy fails. Teams don’t really have to be designed around her, she just fits in the anchor slot really well if your team members fail.
Another important phoenix mechanic is that a lot of the time she forces people to drop a combo that could kill just to snap her in and get a chance to mix her up. Whether that mix-up succeeds or fails, she has effectively saved a character while reducing some of the opponent’s resources.
^
@Kissblade: Beam super gets bodied by inferno.
I’m pretty sure Akuma’s beam can negate the bird actually. If they’re both done from full screen about the same time, I think beam super has enough time to get through it.
What’s scary to me against Phoenix teams is that if they get one solid connection you, you know they’ve build enough meter for Dark Phoenix at that point unless you’re able to snap her in and kill her.