You’re describing something that like 2 characters can do against XF3 DP. Which even then they could still lose easily. It’s just for once Phoenix could actually lose easily.
What if she starts spamming “DODGE THIS” in the air?
Certain team hyper configurations and crossover counters are amazingly effective against her. You can use team hypers that hit 1-2 frames after the flash to auto correct punish teleports, and team hypers that are active on frame zero after the flash to punish x-factor activation. Crossover counters that are invicible for their full duration or can be canceled into an invincible hyper work extremely well, as does a counter like Zero’s Shippuga which leads to a death combo on her. Sure, both options cost meter, anywhere from 1-3 depending on the THC or crossover counter in question, but they are effective.
You actually should be happy if she’s forced to spam H TK shots in the air as Dark Phoenix. The start is slow and gives you time to check in to the nearest corner if you wish. Or you can just super jump up near her and Tatsu. Both of those options are very uncomfortable. The fireballs also gets blown up by the Tatsu spin unless it’s coming from directly overhead.
A lot of characters CAN do something about Dark Phoenix level 3. They don’t lose as free as people think unless you’re a terrible choice for an anchor. Most people are falsely blaming Dark Phoenix’s strength when there are many characters that are just as crazy in XFC3. Like you said XFC3 is the problem in this game but with Dark Phoenix she is cheap because of one thing. Her Medium Trap for a 50/50 Touch of Death mixup that is UNAVOIDABLE for a character coming off the screen. This basically let’s her train a team before they get a fair chance to reset the position to a pure XFC3 battle. Without the wall bounce from the trap Dark Phoenix XFC3 is very scary but so is Wesker, Chun Li, Akuma, Skrull, etc.
I feel like if we’re willing to grant that the phoenix player has 5 meters on hand, then it’s not unreasonable to expect that her opponent has a few stocked. Or, thinking about it the other way, if phoenix transforms and you don’t have meter, you got outplayed.
I agree that this is pretty fucked, but on the bright side, that’s about 50% better than the same situation in MvC2.
As I have already said, DPh has a huge advantage in that (unlike everyone else) she gets a free, completely safe* entry on to the battlefield. This effectively makes her immune (or much less susceptible) to XF3 comeback shenanigans, which is something that everyone else has to deal with.
Effectively, everyone else has to worry about comebacks (and you really have to worry about comebacks if your opponent is Phoenix), but DPh never has to worry about comebacks. Yet another feather in her cap.
*Yes, there may be specialty setups that allow you to trap Phoenix as she turns. Given that you (currently) need 2-3 meters and XF to do it, with the same tools available you could craft similar setups against the rest of the cast (e.g. Trish homing blade super -> tag to Viper -> focus attack).
Nobody is as crazy as XF3 Dark Phoenix. The closest would be XF3 Felicia because she is the only character in the game that can have an assist covering her in XF3 (kitty helper super) while she’s rushing you down and killing you off super fast. If XF3 Felicia moves towards you you’re basically dead because even if you hit her kitty helper will break her out of the combo and then possibly put you in a combo. Most of the cast just can’t battle XF3 Phoenix once she’s on the screen. She’s gets like 2 frame jab projectiles that instantly cover any ground approach and teleports mix ups off of them that you are virtually unable to react to. Of course on top of all of that she gets H projectiles that double up, are bigger and faster and can lay traps on the ground on top of everything to cover any approach you might try. You literally get to do random super as your only option on offense. That’s not even the case versus XF3 Wesker or Felicia.
**XF3 DP is clearly on her own tier of retardation when it comes to XF3 characters. You can’t refute that. **It’s pretty ignorant to say anything but that. Other XF3 characters are really good but you can still do more to avoid their offense and lame them out than XF3 DP. XF3 Chun Li would be scary if she could get damage off throws but that alone keeps her from ever being that scary. XF3 Chun Li loses to chicken blocking and advance guard.
I’m a tournament player for Blazblue and placed 3rd at CEO, and I must say that you are a fucking moron. No top player in blazblue comes even close to most of the top players in street fighter/marvel relatively speaking, ESPECIALLY not justin wong, even if it’s solely on the basis that they have more competition to enable them to get to where they are. Your fanboy rants only serve to make every other community take us even less seriously than they already do.
しょっぱい ?
So, why did J Wong ditch his Wolverine/Storm/Akuma team vs Tokido? Does he really have so little faith in poor Storm?
Wolverine/???/Phoenix for all 8 of the top 8 spots at Evo imo
Well he won NCR with that team so…
He wanted Tron to help deal with Wolvie rushdown.
Well JWong told IPW that he wasn’t going to play Phoenix at Evo although I guess he could switch if he just wanted to steamroll through.
If you’re going to try and defend Phoenix, you could, at the very least, try being honest.
No using hypers? Tokido thinks otherwise.
1 assist? Guess again, many people use Phoenix’s assist as combo extenders.
Being snapped in? Because superjump airdash back and fire tracking balls before teleporting is difficult.Or holding up-back so you don’t have to deal with high/low mixups.
One random L? Right because fire salty balls, teleport to dive kick allows plenty of time for a L to get mashed out.
Getting chipped? Any chip happening is probably because of salty balls, in other words, by Phoenix.
While we’re at it, 10/10 stream monsters agree an 800k Jean would be just as bad, if not worse of a headache than Derp Phoenix.
Lets go over a list of pros Jean has:
Excellent normals.
Slow projectiles that track
Fast tracking teleports.
8 way air dash.
Any attempts at getting her out require sacrificing meter and damage on a character, without even as much as a 50/50 on entry.
DERP PHOENIX RISING!
Cons:
Shitty health
Slightly slower than others with 8 way air dashes .
Requires more buttons than team heterosexual life partners to do damage.
And while I’m writing what will ultimately be considered by many as trolling, I may as well go for broke.
X-factor at any level is fine. All of the proposed changes(yes, changes, not fixes) are merely salt loaded complaints that neglect to step back and look at the game from a larger perspective. The game has already evolved to the point where 1 touch kills are entirely possible, even more so given the proliferation of the DHC glitch. XF boils down to little more than a high value resource, hell one could argue that Xfactor at any level is the damage equivalent of 3-5 meters. I’ll take things a step further and address XF guard cancels: Learn to hit confirm or get better at running away. Every time someone does XF3 guard cancel and gets the win I cringe. Is hit confirming really that difficult? Play Tron once in a while when all you have is j.H.
And before someone brings up XF1 Wolverine+Akuma taking out two characters, 90% of the cast can do that to, the difference is Wolverine basically spits at any zoning attempt with Berserker Slash, Berserker Charge and his Heterosexual Life partner. Thats a Wolverine problem, not an Xfactor problem.
Phoenix isn’t a broken character.
"Oh whaaaa, I can’t beat Dark Phoenix ever, it isn’t fair! She should be patched!"
Level up your game or put Phoenix on your team. The problem isn’t that Phoenix is overpowered - it’s that you’re not very good.
I’d much rather play against Phoenix than Wolverine or Dante. Personally, I think those 2 characters are infuriating to play against, but that’s my problem.
There’s a case to be made that X-Factor could use a little work, but it still doesn’t break the game.
“Every time I play against Wolverine and he gets the first hit I lose a character!”
Don’t. Get. Hit.
Play smarter.
thats fine and dandy.
take away her “lol broken pros” and fish out a useful character.
Make her teleport slowest and not tracking, make her normals slower and less safe, her one tracking fireball of the 3, make them die to all projectiles, take away her 8-way airdash
and show me why phoenix needs to be in the game or used at all.
And please do not compare her dive kick to wolverines.
yeah no hypers because not every phoenix team uses the same exact characters, and not every player plays the same, and once again its a risk. those hypers could kill or get you killed.
its easy to complain about her pros but realize those are the only things that make her viable.
its high risk high reward not, half assed award and awkward high risk character.
And how is 20 seconds of any match that lasts around at best 60 seconds, rarely 99 seconds, reasonable.
not attacking simply discussing.
I don’t think shes really ‘‘broken’’ either, but she can def. be crazy hard to play against. I’ve seen good players @ tournies body the other 2 chars on the other persons team just to get beaten by Dpxs crazy Chip or speed, so saying that someone should just get better isn’t entirely true, its up for debate but people said Justin outplayed Tokido for example. But look @ Justin wong destroying…Mint? Idk I forgot @ N9 recently 6-0. (If Im correct he played Phoenix as well)
I also hate wolverine way more (Less risky…Great Hp…Crazy hitbox…fast…has zzzz factor), Dante…Dante IMO requires way more skill at least, not to mention he is entertaining to watch and every Dante player plays different. (But I am biased since <33 Dante) Wolverines do the same Day 1 combo they have been doing for months…the same setups…the same…zzz. Like I picked Wesker up in 30 minutes and am already winning more than I was with Dante in all these months. And there are actually some vids now about killing Dphoenix before she can do anything, but they are hard and only some chars can do it. (She-hulk can though, so people might wanna look into that)
i really just want cable in this game
“I cant control-”
“HYPER…”
psimitars that go right through those tk balls, and fierce nades right above your head to prevent teleport-ins
X-factor lasts 20 earth seconds. Matches tend to last around 60 Marvel seconds, which is a long god damn time.