I felt that towards the first half the pair of you were kind of in freestyle mode and just using your knowledge of your own character to get the wins, whereas later on the pair of you started ‘playing the matchup’ a bit more and playing more reactive.
The amount of nj.fierces shot up as did the amount of seismos. This is basically because Gouken has a surprising amount of aerial superiority over Viper and can shut down her methods of getting in with just that. On the other hand, fireballs are WAYYYY more unsafe than those matches attest, and the last few showed just how useful Vipers seismos are as a projectile and zoning tool. Gouken can get round this the same way as any other projectile though, and you touched on it slightly in your analysis. The main thing though, playing from Gouken’s POV, is that his main objective is to land a hard knockdown and really exploit Viper’s wakeup options.
dont worry about divekicking viper on wakeup, just regular jump and hold back because her uppercut is way to slow to bust you on your landing frames, and if she goes for the upper it gets block then she loses the match. if she starts backdashing just see it, inch a lil close, then sweep, then another safe jump.
if playincodnaked was smart enough about this matchup, gouken can do ANYTHING about lightning knuckle. if she bases her game around using lightning knuckle it goes wayyy uphill for gouken.
>well just neutral jump fierce, < okay no, because she can walk right under you and bust you with an uppercut lightning knuckle, and if she has ultra, well, you eat ultra.
She’s minus/even on block. Block it once and do something. You can even jump out if you feel like it. Gouken’s pokes are way better than Gouken’s, and if you just cr.lp after blocking the TK you’re not gonna get Burning Kick’d. She has to do something dumb like EX BK or HP TK to continue the string. She can’t even EX seismo you or anything.
Why not do a dive kick on Viper’s wakeup? She has to block it.
if she is poking with thunder knuckles, she is taking a risk against your neutral jumps.
punishing a neutral jump from mp. thunder knuckle range isnt very easy.
her timing has to be pretty impressive.
i am always surprised when my opponent manages to punish a neutral jump, even though most of the time they only do it when i am spamming it.
punishing conservative neutral jumps takes godlike reaction and wide focus.
The thing is though, the cr.lp is completely safe except for her doing EX BK (unsafe) or hp TK (unsafe). Any other reversal is too slow to catch the cr.lp. Including EX Seismo.
I’ve been itching for something to help develop a solid gameplan for this matchup, aside from the obvious fireball zoning and well-placed dive kicks for a while.
I’m amazed at the mileage you get out of dash palm Raun. That move gets me into trouble so much that I barely use it at all. But when you do it they just eat it all day. Wtf! lol
I also cringed on those c.fierce to EX-Kongos… We’ve all been there man. :sad:
you are welcome.
i am not an abel expert at all, but strider is a pretty good abel and what i do works ok against him.
abel’s punishment options are all slow so it is difficult for him to punish a deep blocked palm.
i dont think he can punish a tip-blocked palm at all.
if i tried that against fei long i would just eat c.lp xx rekkas all day.
also, if someone is waiting for a fireball but you do a palm, palm gets there so fast that it shoots them down if they tried to jump on reaction.
random palms catch people off guard a lot.
palm isnt safe, but neither is jumping and i always find an excuse to do that LOL!
the worst thing about c.hp xx ex kongo is the loss of the bar.
it rarely gets punished and the jump-in + c.hp is equal in damage and greater in stun than your c.lp string.
i was ending up on the wrong side of abel almost every time though!
Awesome set man I’m real happy with the way you tackled an Abel as I have basically NO experience against one while using Gouken. Lots of good commentary and of course great execution!
Been looking forward to this set, I was surprised to see 4 links, you did damn well for such a tough matchup! I’m going to see if jumping back helps me a lot in my many cammy nemeses, I’ve already tried to make an effort to not use ex demonflip up close and less neutral jump.
The worst thing about getting kongo is the fact that your big damage opportunity you worked so hard for is gone! :sad:
Abel can’t punish blocked palm at all, as far as I know (unless you do some really bad one that he can neutral throw, but that’s not Abel-specific), just like Gouken can’t punish Abel’s CoDs. It’s an interesting match because both players have offensive options they don’t have in many other matches due to the inability to punish laggy specials. I recommend always option-select throwing Abel when you do a meaty dive kick, too. Abels (like myself) like to EX roll unless you give us reason not to. And, option-select backthrow = free ultra for Gouken to boot! It’s like option-selecting ultra into every dive kick you do. (That said, I still think the match is 6-4 Abel because Gouken can’t zone or shake off a charging Abel very well)
Nice Cammy set, as well. I only watched a few matches in the middle, but it seemed like there were a lot of obvious dive kicks that could have been kongoed? Especially when she’s doing stuff near you on wakeup or after a blocked close MP or something (but maybe you did this in the early matches and got hurt for it). You might get thrown occasionally, but it stuffs her meaty close normals, her delayed DP, and another dive kick attempt, so I think it’s worth it to gamble more with this move in close than you would against other characters? I guess it’s always easy to see kongo opportunities when you’re not playing, though. Also, I think far HP and close HK might be good normals against Cammy in footsies and when under pressure, respectively. Have you had success using those at all?
draykaden likes to fake out my kongo by doing cannonstrikes that hit me in the feet or doing late cannon strikes that hit me after the active frames of kongoshin end.
either one of those is a full combo plus knockdown for cammy so i am gunshy with kongoshin against her jump ins.
Also, I think far HP and close HK might be good normals against Cammy in footsies and when under pressure, respectively. Have you had success using those at all?