I’m with Raun on this one that dash tatsu is 99% of the time not worth it. As far as i’m concerned there are only 2 instances in the game when it’s appropriate. 1) When you absolutely know that the extra 40 damage (I’m pretty sure that’s right) over mp Palm will kill them and it’s not one of the characters that it doesn’t work on. or 2) When playing against gief and you absolutely positively want him the hell away from you and you are absolutely sure that the corner won’t lessen the distance.
In all other cases, it seems to me you want to use the MUCH more reliable mp Palm, or the dash>>sweep>>shenanigans.
don’t get me wrong, it’s worth learning the execution if only for the hope that they have fixed tatsu in ssf4. But overall, I personally don’t incorporate it in my game unless I’m just showing off, because it might suck but it sure is flashy and a bit demoralizing
i have been posting about how much i dislike dash tatsu for months.
at 4 minutes in this video: [media=youtube]BnGVg…eature=channel[/media]
i talk about it in the commentary with a gory example.
my thoughts on dash > tatsu after ex palm apply even more aggressively to dash > ultra which is a lot harder than dash tatsu.
MP palm is no more reliable then Tatsu after an EX Palm, if a character that HK tatsu works on, drops out of the combo, it’s cause YOU fucked up, not because it randomly dropped him. I can’t stress that enough. if you only get one hit off the tatsu on a character the combo is known to work on, you fucked up the timing.
Now, you can go ahead and say you like palm after EX palm cause it allows you to keep the pressure with a fireball that you throw from all the way across the screen or something but don’t say it is because it is more reliable. A lot of people use mp palm cause it’s the easiest thing to do, but you can do HP palm for more damage, just tighter timing. Same deal with the tatsu.
Try to keep in mind that people who are looking to play Gouken for the first time or to learn some things about Gouken will come to these threads looking for information and saying something like “unreliable” is not true. EX palm dash to tatsu is not a combo that is a problem for me, ever, and I imagine a lot of other people. As I said earlier in this post, people do have reasons for wanting to use palm, but it has nothing to do with “reliability”.
Also, I’m pretty sure if you want to recover the fastest after the EX palm you should use lp palm as your followup.
harder combos are less reliable than easy combos brother.
i have seen daigo screw up f.hp > c.hp xx hp.srk enough to know that.
also, you can miss easy combos for one reason or another.
if you have two options to complete a combo, both of equal difficulty, and combo “a” leaves you wide open for your opponent’s best combo if you miss but combo “b” leaves you safe, it would be foolish not to weigh the pros and cons at that point as a practical player.
Ok guy, not even gonna argue with you. I’m just gonna let you know, that combo “a” and combo “b” are not of the same difficulty to anyone who is complaining about reliability of combo “a” in your example, unless you find yourself whiffing combo “b” just as often, and since “a” is tatsu and “b” is mp palm, if you whiff “b” you need to hit the training room, hard (yay run-ons!). Yes, fucking up leaves you wide open, but that’s your fault for fucking up, you need to work on that if you fuck it up enough that you are losing games cause of it. Has NOTHING to do with the reliability of the combo itself. We are not talking one frame links in regards to dash tatsu…
So {insert generic 1-frame link combo}, which is PURELY execution, can be called “unreliable”?
Meanwhile we have a combo where a noticeable portion of the cast can rape you if you even try it. Many more can rape you if you try it, but the previous ex-palm was imperceptibly too far away. That’s NOT “unreliable”? And that’s before I even bother to getting into risk/reward or comparing it to other, easier moves which set you up better afterwords.
I’m sorry, but we have different definitions of “unreliable”. From my point of view, not only is it unreliable, but it’s also not even the 2nd best choice in almost all circumstances.
So {insert generic 1-frame link combo}, which is PURELY execution, can be called “unreliable”?
Meanwhile we have a combo where a noticeable portion of the cast can rape you if you even try it. Many more can rape you if you try it, but the previous ex-palm was imperceptibly too far away. That’s NOT “unreliable”? And that’s before I even bother to getting into risk/reward or comparing it to other, easier moves which set you up better afterwords.
You’re right, never do this combo. Forget about it. It’s too “unreliable”. Forget anything other then j.hp - cr.hp xx fireball.
dash tatsu will whiff on guile unless you take the extra step.
guile, sakura, fuerte, dhalsim, rose and abel have a slightly smaller window or range constraint for landing dash tatsu after ex palm.
it is certainly a hitbox issue.
there might be more characters that have hitboxes that affect the frame allowance for landing tatsu after dash, im not sure.
it isnt a simple matter of it either works or it doesnt.
some characters seem to be easier to land it on than others, like blanka seems easier than ryu.
cammy and chun li seem pretty easy (lol).
i saw a poster claiming that you could land dash tatsu on anyone, you just needed to take an extra step after the dash.
being the tatsu hater that i am, i never followed up on it with testing of course.
i just filed it under “oh, thats interesting!”
Again, nice videos Raunwynn. I appreciate the insight.
I will say though, I like using EX Palm, Dash, Tatsu :wgrin:
The only time I really don’t use it is when connections are sketchy.
I have no problems hitting it on anyone that it will work on. The people that it won’t work on are Sakura, fuerte, and Dhalsim. Dhalsim you can use the mk version to land it.
I simply do the EX palm and then :f: :hcb:
It’s buffered during the dash. I almost ALWAYS use this combo and it never fails me except for the people above. I have no hesitation or worries when using it.
You remember I posted videos and someone told me you can do mp palm after the EX palm instead of tatsu as if I didn’t know, because I only used the tatsu.
EDIT: taking a step forward after the dash is something I would probably fail at being able to do. If you had to do that I’d most likely miss it a lot.
Considering that lp palm will miss if you do immediately after the EX palm an the mp palm hits… You could safely assume that you have no control over when MP palm hits and that with lp palm you can make it hit on the last active frame. At WORST lp palm will gave you the same advantage as mp palm. I do not have a 60 fps camcorder but I’d love for someone to check it out. Saying MP palm hits meaty doesn’t really disprove my statement since lp palm hits meaty as well…
EDIT: lets not have a debate over lp palm after the ex palm being unreliable because it can miss if you do it wrong… thanks.
HK tatsu definitely works on Vega/claw, I just tested it to be sure because I remember hitting it in the past but wanted to be certain.
Shouldn’t the argument be centred more on why you’re going for it rather than whether you can or can’t pull it off?
Doing either a Palm or Hurricane ender both have pros and cons, and in certain matchups one is favourable over the other (not because of whether it just works on that particular character either).
An example would be if you land an EX Palm on Akuma, and you have a choice of finishing with Palm, Hurricane or Reset. It’s up to the player to work out what is more advantageous in this fight; the guaranteed damage, the potential damage or positioning and screen control.
This also includes EX Palm > Ultra. We all know it can work on certain characters, and has an executional requirement, but it shouldn’t discourage players from practising it to the point where if it is available it can be done, and actually be a choice for the player rather than ‘oh, look what I can do’.
Just by eyeballing it, I’m gonna say they’re about the same. Maybe the mp palm really doesn’t hit meaty, but the lp palm definitely does. Either way I’d rather just sweep though to be honest.
After testing dash tatsu on Abel, Guile, and Vega, I’ve decided that dash ultra is easier than dash tatsu on those characters. I frankly can’t tell why it works one time and doesn’t work the next time. I’m pretty sure it’s not that my timing is too loose. I think that there’s some hyper-specific height they have to be at. I don’t think it’s an ‘extra step’ because it looks like if you walk even two frames or so then your tatsu’s going to whiff. Reipin Pillage if you know what’s up I’d appreciate it. I thought I was good at dash tatsu but apparently not. I’m buffering it in the dash and everything. Like I said, I can get dash ultra but not dash tatsu on these characters reliably.
So what I’m going to do is dash tatsu on character with a DP that beats demon flip dive kick and dash sweep on everyone else. I’m pretty sure that covers basically everyone.
Well kik, thanks for ruining the combo for me! I just went into training and promptly dropped it multiple times on Guile and Vega… The difference is that I usually play on 360 and I tried it on a PS3…
I can get it 5 times in a row or so, but not 100% on the PS3… The only way I am able to do it on PS3 is to buffer teh dash during the EX palm so I tap forward the second time a split second before EX palm ends and then of course buffer the tatsu…
Wife is watchign TV in the living room but about to go steal the xbox to see if I can do any better on that. I’m using a TE on both systems…
I really never had a problem until you mentioned those characters specifically…
