thanks!
im going to go fish for another set right now.
first to 10 against dc hustle 106’s m. bison with commentary.
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Tips:
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[]You already talked about using reversals too much. But yeah, EX Demon Flip is only good as a reversal as a surprise.
[]If you noticed he was getting out of your cr.hp xx mk Demon Flip with jump back hp. I believe that cr.hp xx hk Demon Flip -> dive kick would beat that.
[]When you’ve got someone across the screen but they’re too smart to jump into high fireballs a really great tactic is to do an EX Demon Flip and throw after you make them block a jab fireball. It comes out extremely fast. It’s a great way to get a Demon Flip mixup against characters without a DP.
[]You really need to anti-air more. You did better towards the end but dc hustle was just jumping in for free at you for a long time. If you want to play fireball games with Gouken you have to anti-air them almost every time otherwise they’ll just jump at you and switch momentum on you. I’m pretty sure that cr.mk and a well-timed cr.hp will beat Dictator’s jump-ins. This is especially important right when they jump over a fireball. Because Gouken’s recovery on fireballs is so good you can’t punish them with jumps on reaction. So instead of blocking when they jump over your fireball you need to high counter or EX tatsu. Even if you only get 1 or 2 hits of the tatsu it’s still worth it. Gouken has a respectable fireball trap. Very few people will have the self-restraint not to do a jumping attack when they’re jumping over a fireball anyways so you can just high kongo them a lot. And then if they DO start empty jumping over your fireballs you can just cr.mk/cr.hp/lk tatsu them anyways.
I know people are gonna yell at me about how EX Tatsu is an unreliable AA because of shortcuts but it’s really just something you need to get used to. I rarely get EX Kongo when I’m trying to EX Tatsu. Against characters that I can’t legitimately AA at range (like Blanka with his j.hk) I use EX Tatsu as my go-to AA.
Also the ultra is a good AA if they jump in from far away. Yeah it goes underneath them if they’re too close but sometimes people throw out that perfect sweet spot jump and really you should take advantage of it.
[]I don’t like your j.hk backthrow reset. I just don’t know what the heck you’re shooting for. I mean what are you going to do besides cr.hp or back throw? I think Gouken’s best reset option off of a backthrow is j.mp -> s.hp xx mk Demon Flip. Demon flip really is the only good way for Gouken to do mixups. He’s not like Abel or Seth where they have a command throw and good overhead options. And the j.mp adds another 50 damage so it’s totally worth learning. Same for if you want to do a sweep off a backthrow, add on a j.mp for 50 damage.
[]If you get a backthrow and you don’t want to give up momentum the hp palm is the best option. Off a backthrow you do a tatsu sometimes but you never do the EX Palm -> tatsu. I don’t understand that mentality. Either the extra damage for the tatsu is better in both situations or the extra wakeup options should be better in both situations.
[]No dash ultra? 
I’m working on that myself and I can’t get it reliably yet but I think everyone who considers themself a Gouken mainer needs to learn how to dash ultra.
[]You gotta be comfortable to just hang around on the ground with peeps. You can still throw fireballs at close-mid range. Use lots more cr.mp xx fireball/demon flip, cr.hk, s.hk, s.hp, lp palm to go through pokes, dash up backthrow… you get the idea. If you get a throw tech you always want to defend your ground so that you don’t get put into another mixup immediately afterwards. Again, that means anti-airing, throwing fireballs, and lots of cr.mp/cr.hk.
[*]I like your crossup demon flip setups and I’m stealing them. Good shit.
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lol, i let him jump on me all day!
i think the reason i do that is because i am always looking to walk back out of stomp and backthrow it.
it is really too bad that my mixup after backthrow > j.hk was so flat against dc in this set.
j.hk puts you right next to them as they rise with a couple of frames on your side.
more than anything else, this setup baits a reversal.
ryu loves to dp there.
dc teleported a lot there.
i was just being dumb and didnt think about punishing his teleport.
after you have punished their reversal, they clam up and give you a throw or try to jump and give you a c.hp combo.
i dont agree with that.
i think sweep into df is the best option.
it is something new for me though and not a habit.
an hk. tatsu after backthrow is different than one after ex palm.
you have more frames to land it after backthrow, it hits everyone on the cast, it isnt executed after a dash and it increases damage over other options by 85 rather than around 40.
mainly i dont mind doing tatsu after backthrow because i never get burned by it.
i do not know what you are talking about here.
if you are referring to ex palm > dash ultra without fadc, i never do that.
the execution is much too difficult for me to try to beat another player with it.
rofl, i stole them from the gouken vortex thread!
I rarely attempt dash Ultra online myself, if you play offline it’s certainly doable. The EX palm dash tatsu though is doable in all but the most hideous of lag. It either works on a character or doesn’t (dhalsim needs mk tatsu though). The number of characters it doesn’t work on is so small that it definitely is worth learning.
Wonderful videos Raun. that matchup is such a pain. Now that I see how you play against dchustles bison I see more things I should be and should not be doing in that match up like 1. over using kongo:nono: 2.waisting ex after kongo for dash palm:nono: (which is good once in a while but two bars for one extra hit, is it really worth it?) I noticed half of the time you did not have more then three ex bars 3. Over spamming demon flip to dive kick, instead of demon sweep for mix up and for ex demon flip wake up I would have air-parried at some points to avoid bisons RH as he walks under you. 4. Backthrow to down roundhouse to demon flip cross up is great and extremely useful but can whiff at times wouldnt it have been more damaging for a tatsu most of the time? 5. Finally back throw to ultra is great but what if you played a bison that 95% of the time knew how to get out of that grab. what would you do then as an alternative? To link up the ultra as an alternative I think one good way to catch him is to bait for bison’s swan dive in to physco hand then on reaction; when you see the hand, pull the ultra out. Also ex palm to dash ultra for multi hit version is extremely useful when you don’t have ex stocked to catch the full version. What I did see useful was 1.demon flip grab set ups, really helps that match up also if he starts to walk back and you whiff the air grab, Mk demon flip will meet him as he walks back. 2.I think focus back dash is one thing worth practicing more often under bison’s pressure:pray: for example in practice mode I recorded bison to do three low shorts to scissor kick combo. you can actually evade the second hit of down short even if it combos. 3. Air tatsu as a ground cross up and as a neutral jump attack works great in that match up trust me, ex as a corner escape is great too. 4. Finally because bison jumps so high, when in the corner dashing under him is great for cross over set ups.
Again great job Raun now lets see some videos against a pesky blanka :bgrin:
Good stuff.
I would say any opportunity, against Bison, you get to land a hard knockdown, take it. He’s fucking pringles on wakeup.
The dash Ultra is good if you are 100% confident in your execution. Practice makes perfect(s).
Hey raun, since your making vids now I’ll be your ken training dummy for one if you need it. I don’t know if anyone finds that match particularly hard though.
Osiris, FADCing the kongo to palm nets you half the damage as kongo to super, so if you think of it like that, or if you use kongo xx super it is worth it imo. I think that is a personal taste kind of thing. Check it out in training, and see the damage you get from kongo super and kongo fadc palm and measure it’s “worth” in terms of meter.
2 bars generally translates into 100 extra damage.
the more important part is the extra 200 stun from the palm.
it can be a big momentum shift.
i decided recently that i want to do it every time.
here is a first to 10 against pistolah’s rufus.
he is pretty fierce!
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Close st. strong is your new favorite anti-air against a close-to-ground (edit: if he’s right in your grill) Rufus dive kick. Has to be quick though.
double edit: hell, it even stuffs it from a further distance if you get the far version of st. strong.
Gouken Power!!!
hey everyone…so i just picked up gouken…and i have to say very fun charcater to play with…
So i wanted to post up some vids of some matches i had…
Def. not the best gouken, but i think i do ok…
plz comment and let me no…
im always up for tips to help me out…
also i know i mess up alot in some matches but again they were for fun…
Hope you all enjoy my gouken…
xxBAD719xx(Gouken) vs. Delion89(Gouki)- [media=youtube]MubuRow3h4k[/media]
xxBAD719xx(Gouken) vs. Delion89(Gouki)- [media=youtube]PhPVniW0uuU[/media]
xxBAD719xx(Gouken) vs Ryu- [media=youtube]JB_rO9rnntI[/media] in this match the 2nd round i dont know what the hell i did at the end i got frustrated and kept playing cat and mouse and got beat for being stupid…lol
I don’t understand the occasional palms here and there both in your vids there and in a lot of Raunwynn’s play.
bdeleon, I can tell you have a nice graps of what Gouken can do, but sometimes I think you toss out an arbitrary demon flip or palm for no good reason. I also noticed you did not capitalize on a one hit j.mp against Gouki in the first and second video; if you do that you can land a plethera of shit afterwards: tatsu, sweep, st.fp into demon flip mix-ups (hell, if you anticipate a teleport backwards after the st.fp you can try hk. demon flip and see if you can’t catch him) Ultra… Your corner combo(s?) was good, although I don’t know how good your mix-ups are in the corner. If Gouki demo flips, that’s a good sign you should be using jump back hk, it’ll usually (always?) beat his flip clean.
IMO that Gouki was pretty assy, you could’ve probably plower through him with patience and Goukens BnB hp xx EX Palm >> dash >> hk tatsu (which I don’t remember you doing against him, correct me if I’m wrong) seeing as his tactics were limited to pretty much doing random shit the whole match. Punish that shit (keep in mind, Gouken punishes HARD for one EX bar).
Also: anti-air those jumpy fuckers, use your BnB whenever you can, learn a blockstring or two, capitalize on those back throws!
if i throw out an unconfirmed palm it is usually following a fireball for the frame trap or an attempt at clipping them with the closing frames of the move for the short recovery.
if your opponent is very aggressive, like bison or rufus, or focus happy, there is a decent chance that they will eat random palms because of their general attitude.
random palms are pretty crappy against ryu and sagat in my experience though.
when those guys block anything a dp is close behind.
thanks!
i was very lucky the other day.
i got to play against insaynne and we ended up f-listed.
his blanka is pretty serious and we have a good connection so i will be sending him an invitation to do one of these recorded sets.
i could also ask chivas chivas.
im really looking forward to doing one with ifc zangief.
for cammy i am going to ask draykaden.
for akuma i am going to ask bronxpuertorock.
for ryu i am hoping to play with crazysalvi or wax.
for the gouken mirror it has to be shine, he annihilated me the last time.
he even got a double perfect on me in one game.
it was humiliating.
each one of these matches i am looking for someone who consistently beats me.
the commentary is general knowledge for people unfamiliar with gouken or his matchups.
the videos are really for me, to help me improve my game.
Calm Warrior against Coffee’s Balrog from Dul 2v2 at box arena
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Those 2 ryu time victories were fun
Out-turtling Akuma is definitely, 100% not the right way to go about that fight. St.roundhouse and safe Demon Palms own Gouken too much to sit back and ‘zone’. You have to get in there and hammer him into the ground as quickly as possible.
A method of dealing with st.roundhouse is to do cr.short xx HK Hurricane Kick timed and spaced to hit as the first kick ends. If you just buffer the hurricane motion, it’ll auto confirm on hit and you get a free fat combo, and if it whiffs then the hurricane doesn’t come out.
good idea with that tatsu biffer. I never thought of that.
I’ll keep that in mind, then! Our Gouken’s play quite differently but I still learn some tricks from you[r videos]. Keep at it. I’d offer my Seth, but I’ve been finding out it’s not as solid as I thought it was.
Thanks for the info , greatly appreciated…
Your right about me not doing BnB hp xx EX Palm >> dash >> hk tatsu I started learning that one after the matches that night…so you should see it on some morevids coming soon…
Also to everyone on this forum if anyone wants to play some matches hit me up on xbl
gamertag: xxBAD719xx
Location: VA
Online: afternoons after 5…
always up for a real challenge, not a bunch of spammers and noobs…lol
also use abel, gen, and ken