Ya, it is not hit confirm. HOWEVER, c.mp is possibly the easiest punish, besides the odd hitbox c.mk. This means that if the timing is tight after blocking or avoiding an attack, then c.mp is a good choice for punishment since it has a quick 5 frame startup. Of course, once you know that you can punish with c.mp and have 2 bars + ultra…
Your argument is perfectly correct and I thought so too, however I seem to have a hard time punishing moves with it, although frame data says otherwise. The plain tatsu is 6 frames startup so it’s still fast enough, and I avoid whiffing the tatsu and getting comboed and/or ultra to dead if I miss. Besides hk tatsu has an incredible range and since it’s still fast, most people don’t see it coming.
On a side note, I’m lately having quite some good time with something as stupid as this and probably you all knew: always delay the flip dive kick as much as possible. Many people think you’re going for the sweep and cover low, and bang, say goodbye a quarter of your hp :crybaby:
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Ya, it takes some practice to get the c.mp xx tatsu xx FADC into muscle memory, but once you do it is a much safer option. I cannot throw out tatsu without setting it up, it just seems too risky for me.
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The late demon flip kick is something I use a lot but you have to be aware that if the opponent has a quick reaction to the demon flip - it won’t be so easy to beat or trade his counter move like the demon flip kick normally does. A deep + late demon flip kick setup by the block stun of a single or double hado works pretty nice sometimes.
Just finished up making a new vid.
Gouken - Resets, Mixups and combos.
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There should be some useful things in there and not so practical things. Let me know what you think.
I think it’s real nice other than the fact that I wish you’d left input data and damage/stun on. I like the side-switching things a lot, gonna have to x-copy those. But you actually left out a couple of the things I use most.
One is post ex rush punch, dash up and either walk a bit to standing jab or crouching fierce mixup. Ssome characters can’t get hit by the crouching fierce at a range where you can cancel it and a couple can’t get hit by it at all (iirc, the same characters who can’t be fully juggled by dash up hurricane). The shotos can get hit by the crouching fierce.
Also, I think you left out some of his interesting mixups. So on any juggling cancelable normal (whether it start with ex rush or backthrow or just antiair crouching fierce etc), cancel into mix up between demon flip shenanigans, regular rush punch, and ex rush punch. You know what demon flip shenanigans can do, but regular rush punch v ex rush punch is also pretty cool. Regular rush punch always recovers just before the opponent can reversal, so you can either safely block or expect a block and go for throw/backthrow, whereas ex rush punch looks like it’s gonna recover before the opponent recovers, but then Gouken does the second part of ex rush punch to launch the opponent. The cool thing about ex rush punch here is that it’s safe on block against most reversals because it hits at just about the latest time possible.
I’d also like to point out canceling into jab fireball. Letting go of jab fireball immediately leaves you safe from most opponent’s reversals and puts the fireball behind the opponent (meaning doing fadc after the jab fireball can get you a nice little throw setup), whereas charging it for a fraction of a second makes it a nice usually-safe meaty fireball (obviously not safe in case of certain wakeup reversals).
Are you suggesting rush punch options beat the typical reset demon flip mixup counters?
I have not seen that in practice, personally.
I found it useful. I use some of the stuff already but I don’t cross under typically. The tatsu/FADC combos were nice.
awesome video!
i wish my fights against ryu looked like these examples.
i spend most of the fight trying to keep that asshole from jumping on me.
you know how many times you have to c.hp a ryu before he stops repeatedly jumping in?
a fucking lot.
then he is like, “lol, j.lk stuffs c.hp!” and he keeps jumping.
Cool, but all I see are SRK after each reset. It’s inevitable.
However, there were some viable options in there that not only looked cool, but are simple enough to pull off. Kudos.
In the corner, launch into whatever into juggled crouching medium kick xx rush punch. Gouken rushes at the opponent, but recovers just in time to block most reversals, even tiger uppercuts and flash kicks (not Ryu/Ken dragon punches though). Looks like he’s gonna hit, but he doesn’t, so you get a chance at whatever, ie backthrow or something. If instead you do crouching fierce or standing jab xx rush punch, which is more doable midscreen than crouching forward, the rush punch won’t quite be as safe (because fierce/jab touch the opponent lower in the air than crouching medium kick does), but that’s still fine. If even more instead you do one of those xx ex rush punch, it’ll look like the same setup, but if your opponent expects you to try another rush to throw setup and goes to tech your throw, the second hit of the ex rush punch will knock him. And if he blocks, again not entirely safe, but safe against most characters’ reversals.
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Oh wow… I didn’t know gouken could counter (srk motion back I think) almost every super and ultra in the game. nice.
Yeah, you can even counter Blanka Ultra ones it’s start going down. That is how I deal with Blanka Ultra. But be carefull an Ultra after a wake up can be a Reversal and if it’s a Reversal it destroys the “Focus Guard” and you eat the Ultra.
You can counter Blanka’s ultra on startup with a low counter unless his ultra is reversal. After it gets started you can bust it with a high counter.
Yeah, but it’s “safer” to do it when he is going down after he goes up. Well for me it’s safer, since that doesn’t count as a Reversal IIRC.
darkaoz i would recommend getting comfortable with countering ultra on its startup, it deals no fake damage to gouken whatsoever and if your timing is spot on you can fadc and ultra his ass after the counter hits, you just have to be fast about it. also, what do you mean doesnt count as a reversal if you do it when he is coming down or you referring to something else?
I’m mainly talking about Blanka Users when they wake up with an Ultra, since waking up with the Ultra can count as a Reversal in most cases. So if I counter his starting hit before going up he might break my “Focus Break” (has happen to me before and cost me some matches) and I will eat the Ultra, so with Blanka I prefer to counter when he goes down. There is really no risk on doing it when it’s like that, because the Reversal only works on the first hit of the move and when he goes down it’s safe to Counter since it’s not the first hit.
its my understanding that no matter what part of a reversal move hits you it breaks armor, this has been my experience with the blanka ultra as well. Moreover, there is enough time to see if the move is reversal or not, try it out sometime, you will be surprised at how much time you have to react to the move not being reversal when they do wake-up ultra
Yeah, I need to give it a try, but I play on default controller, so I play it safe most of the time.
nice vids
killakelly is absolutely right.
if a move is performed as a reversal, any hit of that move breaks armor.
kongoshin is out of the picture as a response to wakeups, which is sad.