i stand by everything i’ve said.
did i say he’s DEFINETLY good? no. Did I say he’s DEFINETLY bad? no. Did I trash on people for claiming the latter? yes.
that being said, one AMAZING ability I have is to acquire new information, and make decisions based on that information, EVEN IF IT VIOLATES FORMER PRECONCEPTIONS!! It’s incredible.
Its a shame you have decided to move on from Gouken SiYko.
I have always known by playing Gouken myself (albeit at a lower skill level to you and the likes of Shogun Assasin) that Gouken isnt up to the task of being a character who can win high level tournaments due to his many difficult matchups and weaknesses. However the reason I still main him is because he is one of the few characters that I actually enjoy playing as due to his diverse moves.
For me personally, I find Ken, Ryu, Balrog, Bison, Blanka, El Fuerto, and especially Zangief extremely boring to play as and extremely boring to watch so could never main any of those characters.
I am sure many people will miss your vids here.
By the way Shogun Assasin, Phunkism and Rhymeswithaddy, we need more vids of your gameplay especially now.
well, i guess you join 10 billion other Ryu’s in wanting to win… :sad::bluu::sad:
Thank you very much. 
And a huge thanks to everyone else for their very generous words.
Yup, it’s my site.
I’m glad to provide it.
I hope the content there now, the content I add over time, and the rest of the online sf resource providers can help really grow and develop the sf player base.
I initially designed it on a spreadsheet as an ST Dictator video library to help me learn ST for GGPO and Remix: watch the same top matches over and over, studying opening moves, matchups, primary combos, player styles, etc.
It worked so well for me, that I expanded the number of ST characters I covered (I actually have videos for all ST character, but I have not made the pages for them all yet) and then turned it into a website to share the resource.
When SF4 hit the scene, I shifted all effort to covering the exciting new game.
Well, tourney results (and tier charts: http://www5.atwiki.jp/koko100/pages/160.html Gouken = ??) definitely support your decision.
Gouken is by no means the worst character, but other characters like Ryu have a HUGE lead over him in overall matchups.
C. Viper and El Fuerte seem to be big trouble for Seth.
If Gouken is bad for Seth too, then it looks like Seth might have a lot of problems surviving in any tourney where those chars show up. (and C. Viper is good enough to show up at any tourney)
I would still recommend you keep Gouken developed as a side char to show off.
You’ll be a crowd pleaser, and you’ll find it much easier to get your name recognized.
But yeah, if you want to go for tourney results, you are better off (by the numbers) with Ryu.
Ya, my opinion of Gouken has not changed much. Not top tier but not terrible either. He has some matchup problems with charge chars IMO.
Wow, you stood up for him for so long I didn’t you would ever give up on him. I still use him, but I’ve realize that he will likely not be a tournament winning character.
Out of curiousity, what finally made you switch?
Do Not Worry Ill hold the board down as far and vids and gameplay advice…as Im sure the others will do. Ill try to post as often as I can…but I urge everyone to try and work around the Old Man to find out more tools…
Zas …I definitely appreciate the work you did on your website…With a bunch of heads moving on to different characters…I hope you can update the Gouken section with a bunch of my vids in the future…to keep the interest up…You can find my joints on youtube (Dirty Bodega)…and Ill post new videos as much as possible…
Im still a firm believer that Gouken has the tools to win against ANY character…Just need A LOT of experience playing against those matchups.
I WILL BE MAKING A TUTORIAL FOR MIXUPS, B&B’s, Pressure Strings etc… VERY SOON FOR EVERYONE …Peace
Thanks, glad to contribue.
I prefer tournament footage. (the higher placing the better, the larger/tougher tournament the better)
But casual footage works too, especially for characters like Gouken who just don’t show up in tournaments that often.
MAKE SURE you select top ranked/known opponents in the different characters you play against.
Weak opponents don’t provide the quality video, so I will rarely use it.
Hunt down THE top, top ranked payer in each character and record vids against them:
Seth = EMP Sabin (Arturo; “Sabin”)
Ken/Akuma = EdMastersB (Ed Ma)
Ryu = CaliPower (Alex Valle)
etc.
I don’t have Gouken vs. Cammy vids, so contact EvilDrakefang and set-up matches.
I don’t have C. Viper vs. Gouken vids, so contact Combofiend (not sure his XBL tag).
Or get some games in vs. Saq’s Rose or Sabre’s Sakura (not sure Sabre’s XBL tag).
It doesn’t look like he has any terrible matchups, but he matches up unfavorably specifically against some of the most popular tournament characters:
Ryu
Boxer
Sagat
Chun Li (less popular, but she still shows up in tourneys)
I really love this kind of stuff for helping players develop.
yeah, but i’m better than all of them. I know it’s a poor indicator, but I am on a winstreak in G2 champ, I’ve won 6 tournaments in a row
What finally made me switch was facing a very good Sagat in a recent tournament. Granted, he was a very high level player (Nestor for those who have heard of him), but unlike the other people I faced that tournament, he understood Gouken and his weaknesses, and how to fight against him. Basically he was playing a very reactionary game, which meant unless I predict a tiger-shot, palm and demon flip will lose 100% of the time.
If I DO predict a tiger shot, I can score a divekick combo, which is great, but the odds are ludicrously against me landing even one. My only hope for damage is to worm my way in, when I have to face his ‘much better than yours’ short-range game. c.lp and c.lk are interchangable pokes that lead into huge damage combos, and I can’t counter both unless I use EX counter.
I have c.lp to help me out in close range, but what does that win me? 140 damage and his sweetspot range? That’s pretty cool.
Granted, Sagat is going to be a tough matchup no matter who you are, but this leads into a larger problem: Where does Gouken want to be?
Gouken wants to be playing defensive against an aggressive player. What about a defensive player? Fireballing is good, but trickery won’t work with any good odds if they’re playing defensive.
Once one player comes ahead and scores a knockdown, it’s pressure time. Unfortunately, Gouken can’t put any pressure on. He has decent options to DEAL with pressure, but none put any fear in the opponent - not without risking more damage than you serve to gain.
I like Gouken’s style and it’s fun to play as him - but I feel helpless against a proficient player. Not helpless like ‘wow this guy is amazing, he’s reading me like a book’ - helpless like “what can I possibly do to beat this strategy? I don’t know.”
Ill definitely get in touch will High Caliber players…to make sure you have the highest quality comp available…
Gouken has ALL the take down Ryu and Chun with ease…IMO Sagat Also…
Now Boxer is ANOTHER story…but Ill slide you Pm with videos that I think display good comp…
Not to jump on the bandwagon ( I still main gouken), but I feel what SiYkO’s sayin’. A few weeks ago I started transitioning over to Viper because I wanted to play faster game, and I felt Gouken was getting stale. Viper, to me, plays totally different than Gouken, which is a nice change of pace.
The Ol’ Man is a power house, but he has no real speed or ability to deal with great mix-up opponents. He HAS the tools, yes, but…any character can win in the hands of a skilled player.
You can guess counters all day, but really, they are more of a hindrance against good players than a blessing. Just my opinion. He’s still a great character, and I still play him frequently while I get a grip on Viper.
Out of curiosity, SiYkO, what other characters did you look at moving on to? And why choose Ryu?
thanks a lot for the gouken section zaspacer!
great work on your site!
:clapdos:
‘Good’ Sagats are a tricky match. The focus on caution (for Gouken) tends to hand control over to Sagat and thus breaks a lot of my approaches.
Good Ryus, again, are not ‘easy.’ Its a manageable match, but a GOOD Ryu player can be a headache. “omgiluvshoryukens!!!” Ryu players are combo bait, but GOOD Ryus put up a solid fight and he has a well balanced aggression/caution game. Ryu’s hit confirm options give him a huge advantage when it comes to some massive combos. If you land a jab or a short with Ryu, you have some serious follow-up options capped off with an Ultra.
We have some solid Chun players over here who can rip it up with her. Gouken does well to snag advantage when he lands a combo but she’s still a beast in good hands plus she has a serious poke and speed game that leaves Gouken a bit exhausted.
I maintain that Gouken is middle tier. He’s not great, but he’s not bad either. He’s in the middle and when he faces opponents who have a solid handle on their character - any character - he can find himself definitely out of his comfort zone and seriously has to work for his win just like any middle tier character. Now thats not to say that the Ryus or the Sagats just mindlessly plough their way through opponents, but with Gouken a few cogs are comparatively missing from the gearbox. This is usually the aspect that motivates many to opt for other characters and I completely understand their reasons.
It amazes me the stuff that is possible in this game when not using Gouken (hit confirm combos from jab anyone?) but having said that, I miss the stuff that is ONLY possible with Gouken and those are the things that keep me using the old bugger. My alt character use is growing though. I was a character whore in ST and I think that is carrying over into IV again but I love playing as the old man regardless 
I’ll play Gouken or move away from SFIV completely, I only play the old man, the rest of the characters really are boring. He’s really fun to play, I think he’s most of the tools necessary to win, however you have to be much smarter than your opponent, and I like that.
I don’t know if I will ever will fight against your Ryu Sikyo, but I’m pretty sure I won’t care among the dozens of Ryus I play every day, good luck to you.
Besides, I just hate doing what everyone does, because it’s the easy choice. This saturday I’m heading for Capcom official tourney in Spain where the 30 best players GP wise will meet. I’m pretty sure I won’t win, but hey let’s see what happens, still I’m the ONLY Gouken there, and proud of that. Even in the spanish forums, I’m the only Gouken. Still, I can beat most of them in free play.
I think that some of the matches will be recorded, so hopefully I will be able to post my matches of the tourney 
i cannot imagine the burning pangs of regret and remorse upon your losses to gouken siyko!
the other day my 5 year old came into the room wearing only his underwear and a red headband.
he had his arms out from his sides and his chest puffed with a very tough look on his face.
my eyes grew wide and i exclaimed "what are you going to do?!"
he jumped and spun around awkwardly and shouted "tornado kick!"
i was laughing pretty hard as he then calmly walked from the room.
just as he was about to exit, he looked at me over his shoulder and said "i may be old but my time is far from over."
i can never play any other character now!
lol :lol:
Still, in any case, big thanks for all your input on Gouken Sikyo, I hope you meet some incredible Gouken while playing Ryu and gets you back to Gouken, the way that Sagat took you to the Ryu path.
This is one of the major reasons why Gouken fails to shine. If he could even do c.LK c.LP xx Tatsu he’d be way way better. A link to c.MP from c.LP or s.LP would be tops, but I’d honestly just take a way to combo to LP Hadou on block that doesn’t have a massive gaping hole in it.
Nice, handicap yourself at the character select screen. That’s always a good idea, and then when you lose you can just say “OH WELL LOL I’M NOT PLAYING TOP TIER”. I’m honestly not trying to rag on you for this, I’ve gone to tournaments since '02 (not as long as a lot of other people, but a decent amount of time) and for the first few years I was all “I’m going to use mid/low tier and be different and when I win everyone will totally be like “Woah man you totally kicked ass with that low tier character” and I’ll be super special and awesome”. Obviously I never did to well in tournaments. Sure, I would win a few rounds, advance in the brackets, but I’d never get to the semis because I was doing two things wrong: Gimping myself at the character select screen, and playing characters that required more skill than I had available.
The thing was, I actually like some of the better characters in the games I played, but I refused to play them trying to persuade myself to use lower tier characters. In CvS2 I really like K-Cammy and Blanka, but I didn’t use them for the longest time because “They’re top tier” and I didn’t want to “be a tier whore like everyone else”. That eventually changed and they’re permanently on my team when I do play the game seriously.
Good characters are popular for a reason.
They also win tournaments consistently for a reason.
I’m all for diversity. I’m all for learning characters and applying them in ways people haven’t thought of before. But you have to ask yourself: Am I doing it because I like the character, or just because I want to be a precious and unique snowflake?
Personally, I like Gouken. I’ll keep playing him because he’s the character I’ve invested the most time in. Sure, he has a decent amount of flaws, and some battles will be uphill, but at this point I’d rather just stick with one character and work on making them solid enough to play at a consistently high level than jumping ship and using someone else. Perhaps this is a bit hypocritical of me given that I know I’ll be coming in at a slight disadvantage against other characters, but at least I’m not trying to justify playing someone like Dan, and I know I’m not just playing him to be “different”. I genuinely like how the character plays, despite my complaints about his flaws, and that’s what keeps me playing the old man.
After going to a few tournaments I’ve been able to figure out what I’m doing wrong for the most part, and work on correcting it. He’s not a bad character, he’s just not an easy character. He lacks a large number of tools that the “better” characters (solid wakeup, invincible special moves that are safeish on block/completely safe if FADCed, fast short/jab, easy/damaging combos from short/jab) have and doesn’t get as much to make up for it as the currently higher ranked characters who lack these things get (Rufus rushdown/nearly safe free chip damage/any hit in the corner leading to ultra, Viper’s crap, etc).
But I ramble. Playing someone “just to be different” is stupid. Play a character you like and can apply yourself to properly to maximize your wins, regardless if that character is top or bottom on the tier list. Playing someone just to be able to say “Hah I beat you with this character and they’re low tier!” is the most retarded thing I’ve ever heard, and I used to try to do it. Looking back I could have been much much better at the games I played if I wasn’t trying to be unique and special.
This post is too long.
gouken makes up for his flaws with his strengths in my opinion.
you can win against a good player with nothing more than a sweep and a throw if you play well.
gouken has considerably more in his arsenal than that.
in any case, if you want to give yourself the best possible chance to win, it is best to pick the character that does best against the characters most likely to be played.
you are not losing because you play gouken though.
there are many variables to be considered and many options to take advantage of.
Best of luck to you mate. Do us fans of the old man proud.
I’m one of only a handful of Gouken players over here in Australia. He’s quite rare here but I love the old bugger. While I am experimenting with some alts, I still consider him my go to character and I feel that he’s the most fun character for me to use.
good luck oblivioner!
dont let any stupid ryus jump on you!
smash their teeth!