thats a really good evaluation of my gouken, you raised very good points.
i actually picked up gouken for the first time after the balance changes were announced, and looking them over i decided that gouken would only work if you could create some sort of 50/50 situatino that leads to safe jumps or huge damage. in ae you can force that situation on them with close st.mp frame trap with cr.hp and a tick throw, which is why i always try to fight up close.in a way i’ve been playing as if gouken changes were already in effect.
i’m not sure why i dont angled fireball more, i will try to mix it in. i think its because i value the fact that it spaces the opponent and stuff any advancing attempts, and also provides a shield vs fireballs. an angled fireball does none of that although it does pre-emptively punish a jump. i think i do use it vs certain characters, the guy switched to honda for the last match and i tagged him with a bunch of diagonal balls.
i’d not thought to kongo after a jumped fireball, that is a good idea. its highly unlikely that the opponent wont go for the punish. i think i will start trying to use it. also as for low kongoshin, i dont like using it much especially since from today i can catch crouch techs with real frame raps that lead to big combos. thanks for the advice!
use the low kongo to interrupt imperfect low hitting strings , as some players dont always get it right…ive used it many a match to interrupt some bs timing…you have a great frontside game,more angeled fireballs means more reading into your pponents reactions to your zone games for good results, and if your going for the crossup on gflip , use sweep in your mixup more or go for more hard knockdowns for better position , because so far i ve seen your either too early frontside of not deep enough on crossup side, means you need better timing and spacing after hard knock…
why do you hoard meter so much , i for one am very liberal with my meter, any damage you can get surely shouldnt cost you them bars to get it so why hold on to them>?, and if shits stagnate and you have more than 2 bars of meter, take some damage to suck them in close then , ex flip for the magic to start. You save them for way too long theyre way too valuable, id use them to escape pressure and for position(ex flip!) fuck them fadc combos !
Haha, thanks TF! I do hoard meter, I often end up with full bar! I actually have recognised it, but I’m waiting until I play ae to see if I end up using the meter now I can tech trap. I also don’t even try to anti air sometimes because in my head my natural inclination is to ex tatsu but I don’t do it because I’m never neutral.
Low kongo on gapped blockstrings like sagat cr.lk x 2 is something I want to be able to do (even though I wouldn’t do it often as u know my views on kongo) vs players I can see are hardwired to autopilot the string, but I’m not able to yet, that kind of thing will take more time before it becomes 2nd nature. At the moment I really have to concentrate to low kongo guiles sweep lol!
.I messed up the flips vs fei, whiffed over his head, I went to training mode afterwards and decided ill just go for safejump flips using mk instead in future.
Regarding ex flip, this guy can srk them on reaction, and probably 75% of the time he was punishing me for using them on wakeup so I didn’t bother much. The few times he screwed up punishing a flip were the ones I uploaded. I got dominated!
The thing is, we all know what kongo is, and I know I’ve said this before, but you have can’t fear kongo more then they do. When someone fails to empty jump you once in a match and you use Gouken, that’s your fault. When people constantly go for frame traps and keep you pinned, that’s your fault. Using kongo just once or twice will alleviate pressure. Unlike a Srk, where they get hit no matter what they do, they have to attack you. It makes them think twice. You just need to be good at teching or or else it doesn’t matter
I do fear using kongo more than my opponent, see my post in the other thread where I show it to be a far greater risk than the paltry reward it nets you. That said, pre emptive jumped fireball kongo will surely work where ex tatsu won’t and they will almost always go for the punish. If I fireball and then the jump it late then they will possibly emty jump but I can ex tatsu in those circumstances
Oh wow I didn’t know you could do that. In my kongo post I do state I think kongo is ok to use when you can supercancel it because of the improved risk reward, and now I can add when you have 3 bars and are in the corner! Does it work off a grounded kongo or does it have to be anti air? Hmpf, sitting at work when I just want to be at home playing ae!
Kongo-> FADC-> Shin Sho: close to the corner, and works from all Kongo versions
Kongo-> FADC-> far standing Roundhouse (or Jab Senku if in normal SSF4): works mid-screen with all Kongo versions. Depending on how high they are, you can use a Strong Senku instead of the far standing Roundhouse.
I’m unsure of whether it will work on grounded opponents, if it does, it probably won’t be with the EX fireball. I know on someone like Seth you can even do two ex fireballs before the Ultra.
Whatever extra damage you get off of Kongo to super (I believe the super will give you around additional 240 damage) can be applied in a smaller amount with Kongo FADC lp.palm (in super). It’s just splitting up the damage (2 bars for 120 or 4 bars for 240). This obviously won’t work in AE anymore though. You can do Kongo FADC EX tatsu though for three bars and net 380 damage.
Like I said above, you seem to like being in someones face without having to be, the added value in all this for me is getting people the hell off of me and being able to reset to my medium to far zoning game, where I’m most comfortable. I almost always go for the EX palm to tatsu combo as well because max damage and it puts people where I want them, away from me. Most Gouken players on here though will almost never do that combo.
The way you play him will always be what you are most comfortable with but if you fear his moves more then other people do, I’m not sure why you would play him unless you really want a challenge. Embrace Kongo for what it is, use those angled fireballs cause people WILL eventually jump if you keep throwing straight ones (plus angled ones makes people fear jumping and keeps them taking the straight ones), and now that AE is here, use Tatsu.
For me, Gouken is about making people do what you want, or making people afraid to do what they want.
Mullah do you want to add me on XBOX and we can share replays now that AE has that feature when you can watch together?
Also, I’m not sure where your kongo post is though I’d like to read it.
I think gouken is really deadly in ae up close, piss poor at akuma st.hk distance, and ok at long range. Its easy to avoid his ranged game imo!
Yes pls add me, that would be cool, I wonder if I can get over 5000 pp with gouken in ae, who’s with me?
My kongo post was in the where do you think gouken will stand tier wise. I think gouken is good, I think kongo has its use, but I’m basically alone in my application of the move here its all good, if a time comes when I lean on kongo I will admit it!
I was just watching the AE vid showing his changes, Kongo is probably going to sink in its usefulness. Nerfed to 150 damage and you need to use the high counter for things like gief st.rh. =[
Bear in mind fadc off kongo decreases ur overall options since in ae I think he’s very meter dependant. , so I don’t think its worth it unless it finishes the round
I jumped the gun cause I didn’t know about youtube with that url, I preferred to be safe rather then sorry. Didn’t want anyone getting a virus or something. Googled it afterwards though and saw it was okay, just didn’t know how to “unreport” it.
bro Mullah, for what i see u are not using all of gouken arsenal, the old man need all of his stuff to over power the entire cast… first of all fireball is very important to his game, and you need to use the angled fireball and the EX too, keep that in mind… the rush punch is very usefull against fireball characters, when ur in a fireball battle just wait a little bit to throw yours and then use your palm… and something to keep in mind if you dont feel like using your ex hurricane kick, instead use your cr.hp as an anti air… use KONGO if u are not sure wich one use ex instead, and finally keep doing the df, ur very good with it…
Hi,
I am actually learning Gouken and i am searching for some new setups.
I noticed that after a forward throw you always do Forward Dash -> Dive Kick, can you tell me more about this setup ? Is it a safe DiveKick? can you mix front/crossup dive kick depending on the button strength? I saw it stuffed out a reversal SRK, how do you do that?
Usually after a forward throw, i do a meaty fireball (small ‘delay’ then fireball) followed by a palm, it is ‘safe’ on block due to the spacing. If the opponent block i follow with a crMPxFireball DemonFlip->Grab.
my setup beats backdash and reversal srk, flamekick,flashkick etc, and it sets me up for close st.mp counter hit/tick throw mixups. thats all. i think fireball palm is a waste personally, gouken has pretty crazy damage potential up close. my gouken is pretty young and i’m pretty free half the time so dont take my word as gospel.
well the new lp palm seems like complete trash after 2.5 hours of play, it whiffs at really really close range. i wonder what the hitbox on it is like, maybe it can be used to stuff boxer turn punches etc, but i doubt it. now i see why noone uses it in videos. well im sure we’ll find some use for it
After forward throw, you can do the dash > hk.flip kick to stuff almost all reversal AA. You can change the timing slightly to change the side you land on, but it can be tough to control it, especially online. It’s not “safe” in the traditional “safe jump” sense, but it’s generally safe in the “they can’t do anything to you” sense.
Another forward throw follow up is the double dash jump in mk cross up. My experience has been that this is a nice easy crossup setup, and while it doesn’t always get people, you might catch them sleeping, thinking it’s a non-crossup flip kick. Good to throw in there now and again.
Given those two sweet setups, it seems to me a waste to use it on fireball and palm block damage.
its all good, if a time comes when I lean on kongo I will admit it!