We will see. All I know is Gouken has a problem with small hitbox, speedy, longer range characters getting all over him. Often those attributes are all in one character. If they have not solved that they have not done anything.
They haven’t “fixed” Goukens general weakness, so much is for sure.
At least he will be playable in Ultra, doesn’t need to be high tier for me to get back in the game.
On those characters there are some mu specific advantages he has but none to swing it entirely I to goukens favor…
for gouken its like 85% reads (psychic), and 10 % waiting for a landed sweep for a knockdown, 5% miscellaneous…xp
Most of the time I’ve seen Gouken win its from a focus attack. Not saying thats a bad thing per se but what happens when faces someone he can’t focus attack? I don’t like that kind of unreliability. I prefer they add priority to his other moves.
Wish that was useful…
Me too 
Also, I’m not even sure why that is an Ultra only combo? I’m pretty sure EX tatsu would hit off a cr.mp. I’d bet that combo is doable right now.
Unless EX Tatsu got its hitbox extended horizontally, we could probably do that combo right now as Reipin said.
And why 3 meters? Why not 2? If it had to be of a cl.mp, it could’ve went into xx fireball, cl.lk xx non-ex tatsu FADC any ultra… or cl.mp, any linkable normal xx tatsu fadc ultra… or just into EX palm into ultra.
I thought I was pretty clear, the combo is only for flash. It looks sweet. I was just having fun, and thought it looked nice, so I posted it on youtube.
Also, it doesn’t work in AE2012. +1 on c.MP and 7 frame startup on EX Tatsu isn’t enough to link it at that distance in the corner. The EX Tatsu whiffs.
There are a number of things you could do for less meter that offer more efficiency. I’m not going to debate that. I was just saying that if nothing else, the USF4 changes definitely bring the flashiness.
Also, I do think Gouken gains a lot of really useful things in Ultra that we aren’t really talking about:
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c.MP being +3 makes c.MP -> c.MP a legit frame trap against a lot of the cast, helps gouken open up crouch blockers and turtles
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EX Tatsu at 5 frames with more range gives us a very good punish in a lot of scenarios we didn’t have one in before… for example, Cody’s light criminal upper can now be punished on block reliably. c.LP -> EX Tatsu only works now at some ranges. c.MP->EX Tatsu is now a viable near max-range punish, as I showed in the video.
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Delayed wake-up helps us more than it hurts us. Sure, setups give you pressure, but gouken also likes to be at long range. If you aren’t comfortable with wake-up okizeme, you can always back up and throw plasma, something a lot of characters can’t do. Plus, gouken as a lot of good meaty normals (s.MP) that can be used even if they delay their wake-up. Our normal safe-jump set-up is still very safe, it just isn’t always as rewarding. And we lose less for just backing off.
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c.MP->Hadoken doesn’t seem to be as good as I’d hoped, but it still lets you get into max damage on the ground if you land it.
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Lots of awesome stuff from counter-hit overhead. You are at the perfect range for c.MP->Hadoken->Max damage. c.LP is so fast now that even I, a pleb, can react to the counter-hit message on reaction and get jab->combo.
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s.LK->Palm isn’t the best thing but is very good at safely handling focus attacks, something gouken doesn’t handle very well in AE2012. Another tool for breaking focus attacks, cs.HP, also got buffed in a way: you can do cs.HP->Jab->EX Tatsu on reaction due to 5 frame EX Tatsu, and it isn’t even close to being difficult.
There’s treasure in here. I think everyone needs to relax. I don’t think we’re gonna see a high tier gouken either, but there are a lot of improvements.
c.mp is only +3 on hit, not block, so it is not any better as a frame trapping tool. Just wanted to point that out.
Actually cr.mp will only be a good frame trap if it hits on counterhit, meaning, there needs to be a poke before, i think about far.lk frame trap to cr.mp in mid range. If counterhit (+6fr) cr.hk could be linked. But I have my doubts because of pushback… we will see. Although the range of cr.mp x LP hado is really disappointing, at least the gap inbetween on mid range is smaller and can not be punished so easily anymore. Maybe counter hit fishing to cr.hk will be better than cancelling to hado in Ultra SF4…
Extatsu with 5fr start and hitting crouchers will be indeed fantastic, particularly as raw punish on mid range, reversal and easier anit air. Gouken with 1 ex can not be recklessly pressured anymore. I have never read about even more range than we have now. I also doubt that cr.mp x extatsu will connect on max range mid screen…
Cr.lp at 3fr frame start up will finally provide some easy, quick and safe but small punishes with cr.lp x lp senku and finally a small 1fr hit confirm from lights, although it may only provide a measly 10dmg more compared to the chains we are doing now. At least it shoots the opp away if hit… could also be good for defense, but i am not convinced of dumb lp mashing…
cr.LK x lp senku is already a godlike mix up tool in the corner to U2 or when having super. more range on lp senku is of course better in mid screen but nothing groundbreaking. I do not believe in far.lk x lp senku being any better as 1fr slower in start up and does not hit low. The hitbox increase on lp senku should have been way more to substantially change viability here.
EDIT:
ah, yes, DWU… although it will help him on wake up, it will also substantially cripple his effective offense tactics. I am not decided yet if this turns out bad or good for him in the overall picture…
Yeah I realized that after I posted it, but left it because, well, posterity. I am an imperfect person in an imperfect universe.
forget c.lp x lp senku, do c.lp > c.lp x HK tatsu
for each his own, but such unsafe moves on small punish windows of maybe 3-4fr (eg rekka) with a 1fr hit confirm? maybe i am too old for this…
Will cr.lp >cr.lp >cr.lk xHk tatsu work? Since I’m usually doing cl.st. mp> cr.lp x HK tatsu, even after demon kick.
OMG that eats my soul to see Ken miss a move right in front me I go to punish and he is blocking or worse decides to fling out a uppercut cause…why the hell not.
No, cause c.lk would be a chain instead of a link.
@"Mic Witt" to each their own. You are talking 200 damage or more if you can learn the link and punish correctly. That’s huge imo.
On top of that, you won’t be able to link cr.lp into cr.lk anyway. The hit confirming normals will remain at cr.lp just because it’s the only normal move with 3fr startup that you can continually chain/ 1fr link until you’ve confirmed a hit.
So… that’s jabbing into LP palm, any tatsu, or super.
c.lp cs.lk x c.lp is better at close ranges. It does more damage… doesn’t chain, but I like that, it makes it easier to practice the link.