Yeah, if yuo fire up counterhits in training mode and do c.mp xx fireball the c.mp is +4 on hit.
That’s what it needs to be.
Honestly I am not sure if even this would have been enough to make it a consistent dmg converter (over fadc) during footsies. I wish they would have upped the recovery as well as hit and block stun to guarantee the combo, but also increase the total frame count of the move. i.e. make it easier to whiff punish and avoid absurd +frames on hit.
I am currently thinking if counterhit cr.mp, which would be +6frames (or 20frames hitstun) then, will combo to hado on absolute max range. Or 1frame link in sweep. As it is currently not a combo anyway, I mostly do something like far.LK, cr.MP x Hado as a max range poke string. If the cr.mp hits after far.LK, chances are good it was a counterhit. It may then be worth to spent/gamble two meter (FADC hado on reaction of cr.mp hit) in the hope of counterhit (reaction to counterhit notice?) and combo in cr.hk. If not you can still react and refrain from button presses after the dash to stay safe (or maybe even 3fr cr.lp true blockstring). So sort of max range counterhit set ups in hard knockdown. Pure theory in the moment, but can not wait to test lab the new Gouken…
Well, I hate to say it, but I played some Evil Ryu last night offline. I’m having a hard time seeing how I am going to stick with Gouken considering E.Ryu is actually getting better.
I played vs my friends cammy, and I have to say, I was never feeling pressured.
I switched to Yun for most match ups in the meantime (imo he will still be fine USF4), but will continue to use Gouken in his good match ups, which happen to be Yun’s bad mu.
You’d have to ask BlackToof, but you can see what kind of range it has here, at about ~28 seconds when the lp.dash punch whifs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsMj9Ku0Wtg#t=28
His mod seems to be about that distance.
By the way, he should update to the new version of the full USF4 mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNrx-eIAG8
The old one has a few bugs, including being able to cancel from a few chained normals.
That’s shorter than in the mod. He noticeably moves forward in the mod. He didn’t move at all in that vid.
Although i am still very disappointed about the combo range, I believe cr.mp will become a quite good normal and maybe even THE go to normal for large range frame traps and counter hit set ups
- hits low
- good range vs former frame trap normal far.mp
- reliable and consistent hitbox during reeling animations vs. far.mp
- on block -2 (??? current status, was block stun also buffed?)
- on hit +3 => only a 3 frame gap to sweep (another frame trap) and can be done on almost max range where SRK would usually whiff
- on counter hit +6 => 1 frame link to sweep (on almost max range) and maybe combo to lp hado
Reipin, could you please have a look on the combo range of counter hit cr.mp to lp hado (i think you have the modded version)? I would be realy interested as maybe the new cr.mp may be providing a little bit on this weak range of Gouken.
FADC window of Gouken’s Hado is frame 20-21, i.e. time window for realizing counter hit notice of cr.mp and FADC of hado in more; feels doable…
This will only work point blank - if at all - due to combo range and pushback of cr.mp as well as hado and the range of focus. I believe this will be applicable for most fireball chars. But there could be set ups in the corner. Maybe it works midscreen with close.MP - cr.HP x RFA. I strongly disbelief it will be viable during footies, in the moment I can only see corner set ups, which may not be the optimal combos then anyway…
My friend has the modded version but I will ask him to test.
Since gouken was already able to combo into a jab out of a well-timed overhead on wake up, does the 3-frame make that easier? can anyone check?
well, one more frame means yes, easier. “don’t have to think about it” easy? no. doable easy? yes.
I just want to know how much easier.
Before, there were only a few setups that made the overhead be +4. now, these will be easier but some new ones that wouldnt work because it only made the overhead +3 but now do. I’d like to know how much the door is open!
Trying to get ssf4 on steam…
Howling , I think the difference is currently we need to watch our opponent wakeup animation closely and execute at the perfect time (not too hard currently), but in Ultra we won’t have to watch every frame on wakeup , just listen for the knockdown and react from there…
that’s my analogy… Lol
Well OH is +2 on hit and has 4 active frames … it should be more than doable to find a handful of usefull set ups to get a meaty OH into cr.lp x lp palm.
Especially in the corner with Ultra 2 in stock … very scary stuff !!! Solid damage and tons of stun !!!
Forward throw > meaty OH > cr.lp >lp palm > Ultra 2 … + 750 stun
Nice stuff !!!
If combo off overhead is viable, then it is what I’ve been wanting for Gouken for awhile. I always wanted a reason for the opponent to worry about whether to wake up standing or crouching. Right now, crouching is the easy solution. What’s the worst that can happen? An overhead that has no real follow up or a throw attempt. If we could actually combo off overhead, then Gouken would be more complete as a threat on wake up. It will still, unfortunately, be dependent on counter hit but even without counter hit, at a +2 advantage and a 3 frame jab, they’re going to be finding it really difficult to deal with. I imagine the push back might make the lp.palm more safe or it might make it whiff if you are not close enough. All theory right now.
Oh>jab>super
c.MP xx LP Palm might be nice as well. Sadly haven’t seen much of new LP Palm.
Combofiend did mention he’s been playing lots of Gouken and he really likes him. Did say EX Tatsu was 6f though, I guess he remembered wrong with all the number or is there a changelog I missed? He also seemed very positive about far LK xx EX Tatsu. That will be interesting to see, though it seems really unreliable to me. Depends how godlike that new EX hitbox is…
Also saw Infiltration couterhit cMP into Hadou vs Vega froma distance and no combo so yeah, not too hype about that -.-
Cr mp>extatsu vs all crouchers …should be awesome
gouken REALLY needed this.
now watch the lab seshies once i slide kara dem shiznits