dont come here talkin that mess boy…thats the Architect son !
EDIT: if your not always thinking ahead w Gouken your dead
-1- Offensively Gouken is at his best after he knocks someone down, having a move that breaks his vortex AND causes him to change sides (which could potentially put him in the corner doesn’t make much sense). (And delayed wake up is being introduced, so it’s not like he’s just getting another vortex option that opponents can’t escape (I guess lol)
-2- There’s a spot on almost every character that Gouken can cross up after landing GF Throw, but you’d probably need more training time and more than 3 posts in 5 months to know that.
-3- Meaties lose to all sorts of reversals, not to mention cl. st. mp > OS Tatsu isn’t that easy to do (especially online)… AND they aren’t safe… unless you safe jump them, which leads back into us needing less recovery after landing GF Throw to either safe jump or run away.
-4- … ahhhh fuck it.
You need to pick your spots and find out the best times to use df throw. If you know you’re going to be in the corner and you don’t want to be there, then don’t do it. Simple as that. This doesn’t break his “vortex” either (I personally wouldn’t classify his offense as that). Gouken’s at an advantage after the throw, you have more options than simply going for a crossup.
That’s the nature of meaties, it’ll lose to reversals but will beat out other options. If you’re attempting a crossup on an opponent, it’d probably lose to a delayed uppercut. Every choice you make has a weakness and a strength. You shouldn’t ignore a particular setup because it doesn’t cover all options or is too hard for you to do (it’s not that hard). I guess 4 years and over 2700 posts hasn’t given you any sort of execution huh?
If you want to actually have a constructive discussion about topics rather than dismissing opinions because they differ from yours (or because they don’t have as many posts on message board) feel free to lose that attitude.
Hey Cap’n obvious… Are you stupid or just not smart?
I already told you there’s a way to cross up every character after you land the GF Throw and I already told you that GF throw breaks his vortex (just from the simple fact you can’t safe jump after it).
It’s not about how many messages that are on the board, it’s simply from your responses you don’t know or understand what I’m talking about so you are speaking from pure ignorance.
I’ve been down this road plenty of times pal… I’m not trying to argue or beef, but it’s whatever you like… but you might want to look into what I’m talking about instead of firing off from the hip first.
But I will educate you some (not sure how much good this will do, but here you go)… a Vortex Character can basically keep someone in a knock down loop for guessing wrong and rinse and repeat until they figure their way out. And if you guess wrong you get knocked back down again and it starts all over again. Out of all of Gouken’s hard knock downs, GF Throw and GF Slide (most times) don’t allow enough time to safe jump after to keep the guessing game going while keeping Gouken safe.
^^ GET IT??
Goukens GF Grab breaks the cycle of keeping Gouken safe, retaining all of his other options from his other knock downs, and putting him at risk… Thus breaking his vortex… Say it with me: Keep the momentum, keep the vortex going… You can do it, I know you can.
Just take a knee son… Keep doing what you’ve been doing… NOT posting b/c you are bound to say something stupid just for prides sake at this point.
Or would you rather ask somebody else if I’m right or wrong so they can tell you to have a fucking seat too?
This discussion about GF Grab was never about meaties or remotely about knowing what to do or NOT to do after landing it… but apparently someone needs to re-read the thread.
I never realized how quickly a keyboard warrior could lose it. I never once refuted the fact you could go for a crossup. Your limited understanding of the vortex is apparent too. You don’t need a safe jump (or any jump) to continue the vortex. All you need is an option that can lead to a knockdown. Such as a meaty or a throw. Just because you can’t safe jump doesn’t take away his other options.
No wonder everyone thinks this forum is shit. Can’t even have a good discussion. Keep living in your bubble while I go enjoy the game. Cya.
You could have fooled me.
There are plenty of ways to disagree with someone, no matter how wrong he might be than what you did there. But thumbs up for removing the incredibly stupid comment referring to post count.
Souchan, you can have a seat too.
You have a knack for always trying to point out selective shit of one’s posts… but won’t address the overall situation…
If you can take the time to pick through my shit, at least you can do the same for his shit. Either address the situation in it’s entirety or just shut the hell up…
^ THIS is the first thing he said, which is where ALL of this came from… not to mention all the other shit that was said from him the you didn’t quote…
It was literally NOTHING to fucking debate from the first place. The Gouken can’t safe jump after landing GF throw and loses almost all of his jump in options, and anything he does after that involves, risk (especially meaties)… If you can safe jump them, you remove the risk factor and you continue on… end of fucking discussion.
If I’m wrong about the facts, then tell me I’m wrong about the facts… don’t just put your dick holder in the conversation just b/c you don’t have anything else better to do at the moment.
He stated something in which he contested notions. You contested his and felt the need to insult him too. That is what I have my issue with even when I don’t agree with his. I am not going to even get into how that probably shouldn’t even be a point of discussion in the ultra updates topic, but your attitude to him was just very poor form.
And do you think your attitude or “stupid” comment helps???
You are just as guilty as what you are accusing me of…
Gimme a break
Attack the argument, not the poster…
iam, your argument is strong and I agree with it. It doesn’t become stronger through insult, though.
Sorry brother. You did fly off the handle.
I still respect The Architect.
I’ll be damned. Lol Joke.
You’re right, I could have not picked on his posts… But damn it, this MF comes outta left field “Theres no reason to be jumping after landing DF Throw”… To myself I’m like WTF???..
But if the consensus is that I barked at him for no reason then I will bow out… my bad.
He was still wrong though 
im feeling if there was so much “discussion” or discourse to be had why not share your views more jaether? were not opposed to new participants, its just no one really comes as equals , they come with a " this forum is shit" attitude
we shall see just how many are riding Goukens nuts after the final rendition of USF4 comes out…
this “shit” forum will be trolled by even more folks hoping to grasp the old man
we look forward to showing them all the way of SHIN SHO
so lets toast…cheers to all the mirror match “W’s” this forum will claim in the year ahead.,.,
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I just don’ t get the stun nerf on gf throw. What’s the point to this move unless it’s to close a round or stun for unscaled full U2? If you land it mid-match in a lot of matches you are actually disadvantaged to be that close to your opponent, breaking offensive momentum.
Cr.lp 3 frames is pretty yummy though 
my understanding was that others had this happen as well Mrblueberry
and re buffs?p
3fr LP, doesn’t that mean counter hit is 2frames then?and would be great to os w Cl.St.hk? or CH LP fadc
it dawned on me earlier ,any one want ex palm to be 2 parts? or maybe they could give us the launcher portion along with new hcb motion ? making the first part use meter along w a lil startup invincibility?
just athought
I feel you 100%. The stun nerf, I guess it is what it is… but the recovery time is 12 frames after you land it so that’s the problem. Pretty much any follow up is a risk in most cases, so you gotta rely on guess work and gimmicks.
Oh and cammy and akuma are getting new follow-ups on their flips because they were nerfed so bad, poor kids.
Dan is getting command normals…
I don’t get any of this.
Again, the stun nerf is due to an attempt at making command throw stun the same across the board for every character. I don’t know why, but they left Gouken’s significantly higher than everyone else’s before finally nerfing it to the same level.
When balancing a game like SF4, each character has a budget that can be spent to allocate power. Significant differences in character potency (imbalances) usually arise from developers over- or under-valuing certain traits. In SF4, for example, I think the developers significantly overvalue health as a stat. Several characters that could use more don’t get to have it, and many characters have absolutely absurd option coverage due to lacking something like 50 or 100 health that they don’t need because they’re never in a defensive position anyway.
Anyhow, they probably are trimming off some stun from Gouken ultimately because they need to re-allocate some of this power budget to frame advantage and defensive capabilities without sacrificing any of his gameplay. Demon Flip stun will be, for all intents and purposes, the same move. It will have the same uses, the same frame data, the same strengths, weaknesses, and abuse cases… it just won’t stun as fast. If you need DF Grab as a mix-up, you’ll use it regardless of whether or not it has 200 stun. Since there’s no visual indicator for stun, the developers probably felt that this was a “cheap” way to give Gouken some extra oomph without him being “overbudget” or without making him less fun, or making him less “Goukeny.” It is almost always preferable to reduce numbers rather than take away tools and choices. The former takes away power without taking away what makes the character fun; the latter takes away both.
It is important to consider that while Gouken isn’t a great character, by the numbers he is absolutely absurd. His best-case scenario means 100%-death in few hits, relatively speaking. It is impossible to give only buffs to Gouken and expect a balanced character. Something has to give.
Source: I worked in game development for a while
With all that said, here’s what I would do:
- c.LP+4 on hit
- c.MP + enough on hit to Gohadoken Ryu at near-max range… +4? +5?
Optionally:
- Gohadoken charges in 1 second instead of 2
- Far Standing Light Kick starts in 4 or 5 frames
The first two changes are aimed only at consistency. Making sure Gouken can do what Gouken wants to do consistently, smoothly, and within a reasonable difficulty level.
The second two changes are more like “maybe these are too good, but these tools suck so do something with them” kind of changes. fst.lk is pretty slow. 4-5 fr and we’d have a decent poke-buffer for footsies. Gohadoken charge is pretty self-explanatory.
Gouken’s style isn’t jab jab hit confirm into combo heavy like the rest of the cast because he has that back throw ultra. This is the balance for Gouken. If he was over all good like the top tier’s the back throw ultra will have to be removed to keep Gouken from being broken. Imagine if Sakura had a back throw ultra? What Gouken can do what other fighters can not is use that back throw ultra as a threat to force your opponent into a mistake.
Sakura basically has gouken’s max damage + easy hit confirms and good footsies
Gouken’s backthrow ultra was nerfed in AE2012 and Gouken’s backthrow is now techable on reaction, plus everyone uses ultra 2