Darc Requiem wrote: »
Unconfirmed Gouken Changes from Capcom Cup.
Ex Tatsu: Start Up Reduced to 5f (was 7f)
Standing Jab: Start Up Reduced to 3f (was 5f)
Can anyone confirm this?
Far Standing LP reduced start up from 5fr to 3fr means far.LP would 1fr link (!) from cr.LP (hit adv. +3fr). If far.LP hits crouching opponents (like Eddy confirmed), the following 1fr combo would be possible cr.LP x2 - Far.LP x LP Rush Punch or EXTATSU. This would mean a hit confirm from lights and a possible Ultra2 ender in the corner wo meter. Sure no big DMG, but a hit confirm everybody is asking for… As close MP is +4 on block, this would also provide an easier true blockstring (no srk mash inbetween) to safely push out the opp after a blocked close.MP.
EX Tatsu having 5fr start up is also nice; anti airing as well as certain raw quick punishes could be used in more situations, e.g. Chun’s blocked sweep could become punishable…
But as it is only a rumor not yet or never confirmed, do not hold your breath…
But I thought Gouken’s normals were programmed to be unable to link. Is that just because he doesn’t have any normals that fall within his link windows? Like, theoretically you can link a 3 frame normal now, we just didn’t have one, or something?
I’m sorry, as you might have noticed, I’m not very experienced with SF4 yet. I have about 400 hours down but there are still a few “ifs, ands, and buts” that I don’t understand.
Yeah, that’s the point. Gouken did not have any sufficient frame advantage on his normals to have many link opportunities, only some rare cases like close MP being +7 on hit. With link opportunites I mean sufficient frame advantage on hit, e.g. cr.LP +3fr, and respective low start ups, e.g. close.MK3fr, of other normals to fit that window. So it is not some sort code, the propoerties respectively frame data determine link opportunites. I can only recommend to learn frame data, as even if some normals may not link, they may serve as good counterhit set ups. e.g. far.MP is on normal hit +5fr, but on counterhit +8fr, which means you can then link the 6fr start up cr.HK in hard knockdown. It will also help to learn your match ups even, you know what the blocked attack means in form of negative advantage and your punish option.
Don’t worry about asking, everybody of us started at some point and asked the same questions. Better asking than stating uniformed, hasty conclusions.
Worth noting that three light punches and a dash punch is just as much damage as say, Yun’s bread and butter link… cancelling to Ex Tatsu would be more than Yun can do in the same circumstances.
Having a link like that, plus having c.MP->hadoken and c.LK->palm strike (which apparently works at pretty safe distances) could make gouken’s pressure really, really disgusting…
Far 3f far lp sounds like capcom has its purposes. Yes a link combo with small damage and knock the fighter across the screen but I think this will be perfect against yun and hit his dive kicks with the jab like you can with the shotos. Far s.fp works currently but yun can change the timing of dive kicks to avoid the slow move meaning yun can smoother us for free sometimes.
I want to say that 5 frame EX tatsu is going to be too much considering it now hits to the ground and has a boatload of reach, combined with our fireballs… Yeah, I can just imaine someone trying to jump forward over a full screen fireball. It’s an EX tatsu to the face with 5 frame start up. Throw fireball, dash, if they jump forward, EX tatsu…
But then Gouken hasn’t ever had anything REALLY good so I won’t say it is too much. So what if you can’t forward jump fireballs recklessly. He has no EX fireball to cancel out focus dashing through them so make it a game of fireball or palm to the face.
With +3 far lp he now has an unplinkable 1 frame link (unless you plink with select?) to a hit confirm from lights. The problem is it still can’t start low, but I guess it is something. Actually, it can with c.mp I suppose if that stays +3 on hit. It will be far more useful for things like breaking up Guy’s run stop pressure.
Some fight situations with Gouken I focus on building meter and play a zoner and focus on landing that EX Tat. Think super turbo Sagat. The reward is huge damage for an AA and you knock em away to reset the zone.
Ryu dp does less damage and even if he connects with an ex fireball juggle after an AA dp the damage is less than 1 ex tat. This makes up for Gouken not having what the rest of the cast has with those jab jab jab fp combo of choice like the other shotos. I havn’t confirmed but I think this is the most damaging AA in the game.
Please post when someone confirms 3f st jab. This will change a lot of match ups. St Jab> lp palm to punish stuff like blocked rekkas are gonna help the old man.
EX Tatus is becoming really powerful with 3 bar in this case. It have absolutely GIGANTIC hit box for an AA move. It does shit load of damage for an AA move, It resets all spacing, armor break, and full invulnerability. Since Gouken forward dash is actually good, we are frame event on a FADC forward dash and I think it is a tight straight to standing LP. On top of that it start up at 5 frame?
I think we can do without a hit confirm from light with that move. However, this does kinda make the character rather loop sided. We now have one really good move and a tons other rather shitty moves.
According to Mic Witt, Gouken’s c.lp has enough advantage to link to a 3 frame standing lp, meaning that we would get jab jab jab xx special blockstring hitconfirms, no?
Here is another situation where goukens counter is beat when it should not have been. I sent this to capcom as well. No invincibility this time just pure bullshit. This happened to me not even an hour ago. This shit should be fix… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXbg3dJpJvo&feature=youtu.be
You can call me a whinner or a bitch or whatever but I payed for this fucking game and gouken is my favorite character and I would like for his tools to actually work. Capcom needs to fix this problem…
I think Ryu was out of range, that happens a lot if they are too far. The only way to fix that is to increase the hit box of Kongo or make it suck people in.
The too far one doesn’t bother me either(but I am a lot less resistant to getting it improved unlike witht he invincibility thing). Remeber our counter also activates on projectiles and if they were close enough will get utterly blown away. Having that blast be limited is understandable due projectiles being valid triggers. I’ve had Fei jump in on me and hitting with a tip and being fine.
one possibility I wouldn’t mind is regular keeping it’s current size but having ex have a much larger explosion radius. Really add some oomph to that meter.
Anything with +3 on hit after it or more is a move you can link a 3 frame far st.lp from, assuming you are within range after to hit with a far st lp.
If you want an idea of how difficult it will be to do a 1 frame link, do cl.st.hk followed by far st.mp. That’s a 1 1 frame link, and also a sweet combo if you pull it off. Jump in, cl.st.hk >far.st.mp xx mp palm. Super easy to hit confirm.
