Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
581

Usually he will meet me at the start, and once he has a life lead (if he gets it, which he usually does, with a single mistake) he can sit back and fireball spam (mostly horizontal) and mix up the air fireballs.

With makoto, if I guess wrong at full screen that he uses two horizontal fireballs, focus absorb dash forward makes me eat the second fireball.

The main problem is, any single jumpin even at far/mid screen he dashes in and EX Tatsu’s me to death.

I mean, seriously, that tatsu is nuts. I was instant air axe kicking over his fireballs, but once I got in his dash range, I actually managed to land, but I was still hit by his ex tatsu regardless…

Is it possible that Goukens EX tatsu hits overhead? Because I pressed down/back and nothing else, expecting to block the punish now that I hit the ground.

As for Gen, he uses ALOT of jumpins and crossups, so often enough I need to empty jump… But EX Tatsu, regardless of where I am in the air sticks me to his foot and then launches me away. Now his dash is alot faster-shorter, and he can duck under timed fireballs, he can also EX-Dive kick through projectiles, but its very predictable and punishable, which is terrible for Gen in the matchup.

With two punishes, with one meter, Gouken can dizzy and then kill Gen. Im not theoryfighting here, I see this time and time again. And I am either the second or third best player amongst a group of almost 10 people in the southern delaware/maryland area.

Just overall, I feel that EX-Tatsu made his zoning (once he gets lifelead) gdlk, and the recovery on his fireballs is unfair at midscreen trying to jump in.

582

Whole cast, I feel outclassed by this guy. He’s a good friend and all, but he nearly beats me at every single game we play. And Im no scrub at videogames, but he is perfect at ALOT of games.

If I could get a matchup list, maybe I could at least find some of his worst matchups and pick up the character temporarily. And I dont mean twins D:

And he’s moving away for graduate school soon, I dont like the idea of the best player in our community leaving before someone takes his place at no.1 best player. We go to some big tournaments in Philly and Baltimore. Last Winter Brawl he didnt get eliminated from singles until he played against Arturo Sanchez (seriously…) And we as a community wont have that goal, that plateu to reach while trying to beat his playstyle. I feel that we wont grow as players nearly as much if he leaves. Maybe not all of us, but a great deal of my personal tech ive learned because I HAD TOO trying to beat him. (and my memory lapses when under his pressure often)

He beats everyone at: Mario Kart, Mk9, MvC3, 3S, ST, SSF4:AE, all mario parties, most boardgames. I respect his intellect, his ability to look forward, he’s always a step ahead of me.

Only thing I beat him at so far consistently is Poker, and thats brand new for me vs him >:(

He’s a great guy and a good friend. I just want to feel that there isnt more I have to learn from playing against him before he leaves :l

583

You should not be jumping against gouken. throw him a lot on wake up,focus through the fireballs with makoto and mix up throwing with cr. lk or chop on wake up.

584

Maybe he is just better then you and you should be happy he uses Gouken and not someone that is actually good?

I’ve never played you, and I don’t know you, but if you think anti-air hits overhead, even EX anti-air, I’m not sure what level we are talking about here. If you’ve played him so much you should know all the properties of his moves, gone into training and tested all this stuff.

I’m not giving you any matchup specific tips cause we have individual threads for that, but the long story short is, EX tatsu does not hit overhead, and you have recovery frames when you land from a jump. Yes, if you are doing basic jump-ins (basic jump-ins being defined as how any entry level player might attempt a jumpattack - basically you can draw a 45 degree angle from the center of the grounded opponent to the center of the attacking opponent at the moment of impact) then yes, EX tatsu will own your life.

Also EX tatsu has 7 frames of start up, this thing is easily safe jumped.

Jumping on top of Gouken’s head nullifies EX tatsu as it moves forward and can’t hit people right on top of Gouken.

You are basically complaining about the only high damage reliable antiair Gouken has which costs a whole meter to use.

Anyway, as I said earlier, any match with Gouken comes down to NOT making mistakes that allow a full punish. Gouken can’t do a whole lot of damage to you if you know how to tech and don’t make BIG mistakes.

Numerical matchups aren’t going to help you if he is just plain better then you. Any character that can rushdown has an advantage over Gouken. He has no 100% answer to a mixup. EX tatsu does not hit low. Regular Tatsus are all hittable and throwable on start up and don’t hit low. Kongos lose to the opposite attack of the counter(high/low), EX counter loses to throws and nothing, EX Demon flip loses to crouch jabs. Gouken has no 100% you have to block and watch me FADC answer.

EDIT: I’ll create a thread where you can post your gamertag and have people add you to fight you and maybe help you out in the matchup.

585

(I am mostly speaking of Gen vs Gouken)

I dont worry about EX Tatsu on wakeup, I do worry about it when he has a life lead and is zoning me. Once I am in close range while being zoned, I cant focus absorb dash (forward) i cant neutral jump, or jump forward without eating Ex-Tatsu.

I tech ALL of goukens throws/tick throws, sometimes he gets lucky, but he cant really hit me with a combo on wakeup unless he fools me into thinking I am blocking a meaty overhead ex-demon flip (because i use an OS to reversal or duck under it)

I understand he is better than me, but not by enough to shut me out in an even matchup. My Gen vs his Gouken is like 1-9, my Makoto vs his Gouken is like 4-6…

I thought his EX Demon Flip was strike invincible? I would have to be sneaky with it… then again he hasnt been using it to get out of pressure recently, probably because he hasnt needed too…

Im suprised you actually told me that you wont give me tips BECAUSE you have individual threads… when this is the matchups thread. But I will accept that. To be honest, I dont mind having many threads in a forum, but it seems in most of my forums, people prefer ideas to be consolidated.

If you make a Gouken vs Gen thread I will give you alot of info. I actually just wrote a Gen Vs Gouken info post for my Gen forums. Its not posted yet.

Also, as for knowing all the properties of his moves, AE recently came out, and I only get to play him on the weekends, so I was just asking about Ex-Tatsu specifically because its giving me and everyone the most problems. He plays much more conservatively now, he rarely gets a full punish on me, but he does earn quite a bit of damage zoning me out once he gets the lifelead.

I guess I just wanted to know what his worse matchups were, at a higher tier of play. I know Makoto isnt known to be a good matchup for him, but we really dont see many Goukens challenge tournaments these days, same with Gen. So when all options are known to both players, who really wins? I think in the Makoto vs Gouken match, its trouble when she gets close, but if Gouken guesses right he can push her to the other side of the screen or punish just as hard as she does.

Gouken just doesnt have many good options on wakeup, so he has to know his opponents habits as well as a typical Makoto player does.

Edit: I also think that she cant focus absorb and dash forward and not eat a second horizontal fireball if Gouken is throwing them at full speed, I suppose she needs to time the absorb>dash really fast.

586

We are doing something new for AE. We are making a thread for each character and then making one final list that links to each character thread. It might be neater looking for the forum to consolidate into one post (as was done here) but for the purposes of finding the information you need? It sucks. Do you know how many of these 500+ posts are about Gen? I don’t. Do you know which is from Super and which is from vanilla? I don’t. Not without looking at dates anyway.

In the future (by the time I’m done eating this cereal) you’ll never have to “search” for Gen vs Gouken stuff, it will all be in one place.
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587

Some of these threads can be un-stickied now.

588

Let’s ask our fellow forum goers how they feel?

589

thoughts??? If 2 threads are pretty much identical, we only need 1 thread for it. The New thread with AE info, with the link to the super related thread inside.

For example there are 2 move set stickies, 2 video stickies, 2 match up stickies, and then there’s the stickies with Gouken’s trials etc.

It doesn’t really matter to me, but it just seems to make more sense.

590

I wholeheartedly agree with you but we share the forum with other people, so let’s just make sure everyone agrees with us before we start asking for changes.

591

Is there anyone who is not in favor of cleaning this place up???

592

Well I made a thread and no one has responded.

I saw 5 posts that could be removed, what do you think?

593

Responded to your post. Give it a couple of days and see if anyone objects or has a better idea.