Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics

[Nagmere]

was looking through the ken forum and came across this gem of info:

Might come in handy, nabbed this from Yun forums:

Ultra 1: 9f start 11f invincible
Ultra 2: 10f start 12f invincible

LK Dive kick, 7f start, -3 block, +3 hit
MK Dive kick, 8f start, -3 block, +3 hit
HK Dive kick, 7f start, -4 block, +2 hit

f+MK 20/4/13, 6~23f throw invincible, 7~23 airbourne, -1 block, +2 hit

LP Lunge punch 9/7/22, -9 block, 9~19 feet invincible, airborne after 9f
MP Lunge punch 14/9/17, -7 block, 14~22 feet invincible, airborne after 14f
HP Lunge punch 17/11/14, -9 block, 17~30 feet invincible, airborne after 17f
EX Lunge punch 17/7+2/15, +1 block, 17~25 feet invicible, airborne after 17f

LK Upkicks 5/2(6)4/22, 7f invincible
MK Upkicks 6/2(6)4/32, 7f invincible
HK Upkicks 8/2(6)4/38, 7f invincible
EX Upkicks 4/2(6)4/32, 5f invincible

Palms, +1 on block
EX Palms, -13 on block

LP Shoulder 16/6/14, -3 block, +2 hit
MP Shoulder 21/5/18 -6 block
HP Shoulder 25/4/22 -7 block
EX Shoulder 13/1(1)4/20 -6 block

And here’s Yang:
Move Damage Stun Meter Startup onBlock onHit Notes
sc.LP 20 50 20 4 4 8 SC
sc.MP 55 100 40 5 4 6 SC
sc.HP 7050 10050 6020 6 -5 2 SC
sc.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
sc.MK 50 100 40 7 -2 launch JC
sc.HK 110 200 60 10 -8 -4
fs.LP 20 50 20 4 4 8 SC
fs.MP 55 100 40 6 -1 2
fs.HP 100 200 60 9 -4 1
fs.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
fs.MK 70 100 40 7 -1 1
fs.HK 110 200 60 10 -8 -4
cr.LP 20 50 20 4 3 6 SC
cr.MP 80 100 40 5 -2 2
cr.HP 7550 12575 6020 9 -2 1
cr.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
cr.MK 60 100 40 6 -1 1 SC
cr.HK 90 150 60 8 -7 down
F+MK
DiveKick
F+Throw 120 100 40 3 down r=0.90
B+Throw 130 120 40 3 down r=0.90
Focus1 60 100 20 21 -20 -20
Focus2 80 150 40 29 -14 crumple
Focus3 140 200 60 65 crumple crumple
L-Slash1 30 50 20 8 -2 1
L-Slash2 40 50 20 8 -5 -1
L-Slash3 75 80 20 8 -8 down
M-Slash1 35 50 20 8 -4 -1
M-Slash2 50 50 20 8 -8 -4
M-Slash3 75 80 40 8 -12 down
H-Slash1 40 50 20 8 -6 -3
H-Slash2 55 50 20 8 -10 -6
H-Slash3 80 80 40 8 -14 down
EX-Slash1 60 50 0 7 -1 0
EX-Slash2 32 50 0 5 -3 -2
EX-Slash3 32 70 0 6 -8 -1
EX-Slash4 32 80 0 5 -11 -5
EX-Slash5 40 46 0 8 -13 down
L-DP 7050 10050 60 5 -29 down
M-DP 7055 10050 60 6~24 -24 down
H-DP 7060 100100 60 7~38 -21 down
EX-DP 454565 50100100 0 4~31 -25 down
L-Palm feint
M-Palm 120 150 60 16 -5 2
H-Palm 150 250 60 22 2 down
EX-Palm 150 250 0 25 -10 w-bounce
Grab 10 7 r=0.96
EX-Grab 7 7 r=1.19
Ultra1 480 0 0 8 -28
Ultra2 440 0 0 4~32 -79

now we got frame data to plan counter strats against the twins.
enjoy

[The_Mullah]

I was playing a blanka and kongo’d a close st.mk (the double knee move) and I absorbed the first hit and got hit by the second. I thought if a kongo absorbed a hit it would activate 100%?

[iamthatiam]

Blanka’s Double Knee and Gief’s Green hand are a no go for Kongo. There might be a couple of others, but that’s all I can remember right now.

edit: Bison’s Head Stomp EX follow up beat’s kongo too.

[howling]

ex kongo will work on both of those.

[iamthatiam]

ex kongo will work on both of those.

Sorry bud, but it will not. Non EX Green hand can be kongo’d but that’s about it. Shit… EX Green Hand beats wake up EX Tatsu too.

[The_Mullah]

thx for the info

[u0999]

Blanka’s Double Knee and Gief’s Green hand are a no go for Kongo. There might be a couple of others, but that’s all I can remember right now.

edit: Bison’s Head Stomp EX follow up beat’s kongo too.

Zangief also has a similar setup that lets him Jump over you and land an air jab to set off Kongo while he sails over you without damage. I believe he lands fast enough and in range to put you in another mixup. It’s not a huge threat but it exists.

[AmigoOne]

Blanka’s Double Knee and Gief’s Green hand are a no go for Kongo. There might be a couple of others, but that’s all I can remember right now.

edit: Bison’s Head Stomp EX follow up beat’s kongo too.

Yea wtf is up with that. Pisses me off when non armor break moves beat kongo.

Guile has a SB F.HP timing setup that can beat kongo too. I doubt most of them know it though.

[howling]

Cody’s Ultra 2 will beat kongo but not ex kongo.

[Reipin_Pillage]

Please keep in mind I haven’t played much super, I play for two weeks then stop for months.

Two questions, how do you punish a move that is -3 on block. Forward throw? Abel kept doing the first COD on me and stopping and I couldn’t think of anything in the heat of the moment.

Secondly, how do you autocorrect an input? Do you do the correct input and then hit the button after they crossover? How much time do you have for this exactly? I always though it just autocorrected by itself if you do it before they cross over =\

[iamthatiam]

Cody’s Ultra 2 will beat kongo but not ex kongo.

NON EX High and Low kongo both beat Cody’s Ultra 2. You need to test kongo out man.

Please keep in mind I haven’t played much super, I play for two weeks then stop for months.

Two questions, how do you punish a move that is -3 on block. Forward throw? Abel kept doing the first COD on me and stopping and I couldn’t think of anything in the heat of the moment.

Secondly, how do you autocorrect an input? Do you do the correct input and then hit the button after they crossover? How much time do you have for this exactly? I always though it just autocorrected by itself if you do it before they cross over =\

Besides netting a perfectly timed forward throw after the first COD it’s diddly shit that Gouken can do without risking being punished so you just have to make a good read to get out if you don’t throw them or you are put in a 50/50 for Tornado Grab. In AE cl. mk is 3 a frame move so you’ll be able to punish with that > Tatsu or palm or whatever. I’m not sure about the hit / block stun on st. cl. mk though.

You are on point with the auto correct. The best way to practice it, is to set the training dummy to knock you down and cross you up. Or use Blanka and use his hop to hop over you right when you are about to get up. And auto correct it.

[takinflight]

NON EX High and Low kongo both beat Cody’s Ultra 2. You need to test kongo out man.

Besides netting a perfectly timed forward throw after the first COD it’s diddly shit that Gouken can do without risking being punished so you just have to make a good read to get out if you don’t throw them or you are put in a 50/50 for Tornado Grab. In AE cl. mk is 3 a frame move so you’ll be able to punish with that > Tatsu or palm or whatever. I’m not sure about the hit / block stun on st. cl. mk though.

You are on point with the auto correct. The best way to practice it, is to set the training dummy to knock you down and cross you up. Or use Blanka and use his hop to hop over you right when you are about to get up. And auto correct it.

how many times have we wished for a longer window on auto-correct ultra attempts vs crossup gief and blanka???mannnnnnnnnnnn…if they made it anti air at that point it would be waaay OP

[iamthatiam]

Yeah, the auto-correct window should/could be a couple more frames longer, but then it would take the fun out of the game since it would be easier for everybody lol. I think the hardest person to cross up is that damn Dee Jay. If your shit isn’t timed correctly on him and when I mean correctly I mean perfectly, you’ll eat a lk or EX Flash Kick for sure, that shit auto-corrects by itself (which I think is gay as hell btw).

Kongo hit’s on both sides though So auto correct or not you just have to get the shit out and hope that they don’t empty you.

[Reipin_Pillage]

Ok, so I played a Yun today for about ten matches, best I could figure to stop repeated dive kick abuse (i.e. they are already on you) was to mash st.mk, if they times their dive kick high, you got the hit and if they rejump it will kick them out of the air on their way up before they dive kick. Problem is it is susceptible to getting counter hit and you are standing…

Did you guys see the Makoto video by V-ryu on how to counter instant and delayed dive kicks? I’m curious if any of you could come up with something like that? How do you option select on the ground against the dive kicks with Gouken? C.mk is cancellable so I don’t think you could OS with kongo or tatsu… Would need a crouching attack that is not cancellable yet aims up…

[The_Mullah]

Ok, so I played a Yun today for about ten matches, best I could figure to stop repeated dive kick abuse (i.e. they are already on you) was to mash st.mk, if they times their dive kick high, you got the hit and if they rejump it will kick them out of the air on their way up before they dive kick. Problem is it is susceptible to getting counter hit and you are standing…

Did you guys see the Makoto video by V-ryu on how to counter instant and delayed dive kicks? I’m curious if any of you could come up with something like that? How do you option select on the ground against the dive kicks with Gouken? C.mk is cancellable so I don’t think you could OS with kongo or tatsu… Would need a crouching attack that is not cancellable yet aims up…

. Can you describe vryus os exactly? I can’t watch videos at work

[Reipin_Pillage]

. Can you describe vryus os exactly? I can’t watch videos at work

Sure, he does a crouch tech like we do (lp+lk+mk) and OSes a fukiage

So basically after Yun Dive kicks he crouch techs with those three buttons and then executs a fukiage right after. If Yun throws, he techs, if Yun goes right back up and does an instant dive kick, he will be hit by crouching forward (which I’m pretty certain is not special cancellable, which is the REALLY important part), and if he does a late dive kick teh crouch tech crouching forward will whiff and then the fukiage comes out and stuffs his dive kick…

As I said before st.mk will stuff all his crap, but it is standing. Opens you up to c.lk.

I’m going to work on this tonight though, we have to have something.

[The_Mullah]

Not sufe if gouken can do that, u could sub ultra instead of fukiage, 1 would whiff, and I’ve never used 2 so I dunno what its vertical hitbox is like. It’s doubtful. Could possibly os with jump back if it avoids the dive. maybe just replave with ex flip and hope they fumble the punish! If yun is as crazy as they say you might need to throw caution to the wind unfortunately. There isn’t always an answer.

[BlackBlazeQ]

I’m confused why we don’t see more of cr. lk into lp palm, specially on the opponents wake-up. Safe and pushes a shitload to the corner on hit. on the corner it links to both ultras( and it even doesn’t require fadc for denjin!).

EDIT: on ae I mean.

Ive been doing this alot and having some success with it. If they manage to block sometimes ill fadc forward and grab or do standing mp into whatever.

[BlackBlazeQ]

Question to you guys. How do you feel about the makoto matchup now. Ive been having ALOT of problems fighting her now. Also I got knocked out my last tourny from a makoto player.

[Reipin_Pillage]

Apparently just a crouch tech with c.mk is all you need… He can’t jump back up without getting hit on the way up.