in super sim could just grab you in between cl.mk xx gohadou string, not sure if it’s any different in AE though.
With s.mk xx hado, you are always close enough to be thrown. The opponent could also do something like b.mk xx Yoga flame to punish in between but that takes very good timing.
that’s frigging weird. I’m gonna check that today, maybe my test dummies were mashing it at the wrong times.
*Edit: I left this part out.
Use cr. lp > hado as an up close frame trap on him. He can’t do a lot about it, the stuns not very long on cr. lp > and his shit is too slow to beat anything up close. I think st. lp can interrupt it, but it’s HARD to do. He would basically have to know that’s what the hell you were doing and abandoned all of his low defensive options including cr. tech. Possible, but not likely considering that he doesn’t want to risk being thrown either. Taking the lesser of the 2 evils, I guess.*
Even though it’s very hard to do, he can teleport behind you while you do this, but cr. round house catches his ass, before he can recover. Free Vortex Mix UP! bwahahahahahaha!
If he telports backwards, fireball catches him for possible palm folllow up.
Using cr. lp > hado, Dhalsim has a lot of trouble punishing or getting away from that without Super or Ultra. It shut’s down all of his options pretty much. No EX Yoga Flame. None of that shit, he can’t even focus absorb it because you are in range to use these extensions of the frame trap.
cr. lp > hado > cr. mp > hado/gf
cr. lp > hado > cr. lk > hado/gf
cr. lp > hado > cr.roundhouse
All that Yoga shit up close don’t mean a damn thing. I guess Yoga Tower can escape??? But that’s just a free back throw, so I’d take that gamble.
Gouken is beast!
I tested this today with a real player mashing throws and it’s not always true. You can can position yourself so you are not close enough to be thrown, and interrupting with normals is very hard timing.
Also, since fireball is +2 and the ex palm is 2-25th frame invincible, you may wanna try some stuff after if you have the ex to make it safe, but that is just some idea I had right now and didn’t actually test.
I got something new against Abel’s Ultra 2.
I was fighting an Abel a while ago and when he got his Ultra 2 i started to bait it by jumping. At one point when he did it right as i was about to land from a jump, i tried to air-tatsu after the ultra’s startup animation. Well apparently i couldn’t do it, so when i landed i just did ex-kongo.
Now here’s the strange part. When the Abel saw the kongo he released the ultra and instead of grabbing me and going into the ultra animation, Abel stopped right in front of me. It whiffed!
You can ex-kongo after jump-lands to bait and punish Abel’s Ultra 2.
has this happened to anyone? Sometimes when i get a kongo instead of a tatsu when i’m getting pressured and the other player tries to grab as the kongo starts, their grab whiffs
Try the same thing but with the l0w 0ne!
what would happen?
What other options there are to punish people that spam Throw OS?
The only one I know is: Jump attack, crouching LP, Kongo(LK)
Frame trap U1, s.mp -> cr.hp xx lp hado hit-confirm, s.mk xx lp hado hit-confirm cr.hk, jab jab jab cr.hk to punish their whiff cr.lk, cr.mp xx hado, etc.
Frame trap Kongoshin is your best answer. You don’t need more than 1 honestly.
Vortex them.
Knock them down and use cr. roundhouse or st. mp as counter hit > hit confirm. Since you didn’t grab, cr. tech activates and you counter hit them.
You just have to find ways to time it right on that sweet spot during their wake up. I like to use cr. round-house for obvious reasons. It puts them back in hard knock down and they get to guess what Gouken does next as I go on offense.
There are ways to do this on techable and un-techable knock downs and still get the safe jump/reversal scenario.
Does that work in SSF4 or is for AE?
All of what I said is for SSF4, not AE. s.mk xx lp hado only combos on counterhit. I would assume all of these would work in AE as well.
What about some way to punish Throw OS after: Jump MK, cr.LP
Whatever I tried after that usually get beaten by their LP,LK.
You don’t get a good mixup off cr.lp. Don’t try to do one. Low Kongoshin is your best answer if you know they’re going to throw tech. Backthrow often will catch OS techers.
Fuck I wish I could get people to crouch tech. All they do is stand tech nowadays.
how the hell do i punish honda spamming headbutts and butt splashes?
headbutts mostly. Buttsplash on block I cant do shit which is retarded. Too far to grab, I personally cant kongo crossup splashes.
s.HP beats most headbutts clean and only EX needs exquisite timing. For EX use EX tatsu, always full hits and no dropping. Buttsplashes are safe on block(unless one is named Gief, THawk or Chun or anyone else with 2 frame moves) except H version. Buttsplashes you just really need to get used to countering. Seriously though, with Goukens zoning keeping him out should allow you to rarely worry about them.
You punish EX Headbutt pre-emptively. With jump back sweep/palm depending on spacing. You can also cross Honda up to make him lose the ability to headbutt. But honestly you want to play a zoning game against honda. Throw meaty fireballs and just reset the distance. Gouken has one of the best fireballs in the game. Honda is pringles to fireballs.
When it comes to kongo’ing crossup splashes you can input the kongo before Honda crosses you up and autocorrect kongoshin. If you block the first part of a buttslam you get a free kongo (I think it still armor-breaks on reversal though).
haha exquisite. I like your vocab.
I feel like honda can straight up headbutt after a blocked fireball and it usually ends in trade when Im throwing out another fb which is a lose for me. s.HP seems very useful.
Honda is the only char I feel like I have a hard time keeping out with fireballs. I felt like I can keep almost everyone else out except honda which should be easy as shit. I lose in almost all air to air trades with him which doesnt help at all. even j.mp
Honda should be pretty easy, but their approach ideas tend to differ from most. One main thing I notice, Hondas, they gonna jump.Training a Honda to stay on the ground can be real hard, cause one jumpin for them is very damaging so if they suspect a fireball, they will often just do it. When I finally have them looking to use headbutts to go under high hadous is when I stop using anything other than LP Hadou. Sometimes I catch headbutts with MP hadous, if the timing is right.
Also this is a really good match to use high counters to keep them honest, some Hondas just refuse to stop pressing buttons. After that AA is pretty easy, Tatsus are your friend here thanks to their reach and hitbox. Ducking then standing LK is similar to Ryu fireball baits and against some I just charge a HP Hadou and see if they decide to jump into it or not(doing that to one holding downback though is asking for a headbutt in the gut).
It’s a lot of long distance mindgame, it’s about reading how the Honda wants to get in. Will he jump or focus dash fireballs and try to land that low hitting HK. Will he try to charge meter to get super vs your fireballs? Or try to U1 them(usually should only catch you if you did them close by, super can do much farther)? Is he gonna empty jump and maybe oicho?
Air to airs are not advisable against Honda, he will almost always win, early guess Air to Airs are the way to go if you really want to. The Air is one of Hondas best places, o he wishes he could airblock. I still feel this is one of Goukens most favourable matchups once you get used to their jumping habits(7-3 in AE? :3 ). Just beware going auto pilot on Hadous and you’ll do well here.