It aint about winning or losing it’s about the options that Gouken lacks as a poorly made character.
playing gouken well requires you to be good at the basic close game, blocking and throwing.
that can be very frustrating on line because of the visual delay.
i do not think he is as bad off as emblem lord is suggesting.
blocking and throwing are skills that some characters can pay less attention to.
gouken players need to master their close game because it is not augmented by a powerful inside move set, though kongoshin is pretty awesome.
gouken’s outside game is spectacular, not just "pretty good."
every time he shoots a fireball he is mixing his opponent up.
they dont know if it is high, low or delayed or a combo of those.
his fa is very good and his damage potential from fa is ridiculous, without ultra.
gouken’s damage potential from one ex bar is comparable to ryu’s with 2 bars and ultra.
his demon flip is the best jump in in sf4 imo.
ex demon flip makes any fireball war against gouken very dangerous.
master the close game to patch up gouken’s deficiencies.
solid blocking and throwing is good against every offense in the game.
Raun wins.
I do hate however, that Gouken can’t start a combo from a low hit confirm. I mean to me cr.mp or cr.lk into tatsu isn’t possible uness you KNOW the low hit will land. And if you know that, why not start the combo with fierce punch for more damage? Exactly. You would. Granted, i know his BnB is super damaging so i assume the game developers thought it fair to give him only that combo opener. But seriously? How bland and predictable. I mean with Gouken it’s either zone zone zone or block block block or cross your fingers, hope the DF.K lands so i can combo! I mean sometimes i just get so bored.
Also seriously. Sometimes even if i’m blocking and ready to tech, i still miss my window for it. Actually quite often. I hate Gouken molesters.
Honda’s thx
He needs the frame adjusted on his normals … that’s it more i play him the more I think that. He can’t even do a back throw frame trap as it’s 5 frames and the most he gets is +1 on a 5 frame normal …
Really he’d be scary with + on jabs, cl st. MP, and cl. FP. That’s all I want from him : / a faster super would also be nice. 10 frames? on a super? come on.
Also make his counters not limited by the focus system k thx.
Frame advantage is more important to speed. Frame advantage negates speed once the offense actually begins only in a neutral/disadvantageous situation is where 3 frames is important. Give +2 on jab and than who cares that it’s 4 frames.
i cant tech on reaction online.
i just try to throw my opponent a lot.
throw is gouken’s only 3 frame attack!
I think all this nonsense about gouken’s normals would be pretty much fixed, if they just let him jab->special like damn near every other character in the game.
I am still against 3 frame jab, but am overwhelmingly for more hitstun/blockstun on various normals (notably jabs and MPs).
Not the first. Not the last.
Ummm… 
a) When and where have I even remotely indicated my vocabulary is “superior” to… erhm… anyone’s?
b) When and where have I even remotely indicated that Gouken should be the “best character”…??
(*Though given the mythology, he by all rights should be!)
Last time I checked some Gouken-hater decided to change the subject of the thread (ie. GOUKEN) to what he interprets as my apparent fondness for sesquipedalians. In other words, diversional tactics designed to veil their lack of constructive input. If I’m not mistaken, a technique that originates from the likes of GameFAQS forums…! :rolleyes:
All I ask for with Gouken is some logic in the way he plays:
-less wiff
-no temp damage on parries
-consistency in what’s parry-able
-less severe damage scaling, and
-some priority on the most devastating Ultra in the game.
Do you see me asking for scrub-easy juggles from j.:mp: or Ballrot-esque 20-hit jab strings?!
Nigga please… 
I imagined him having this type of move
but call it the Power of Nothingness, or whatever
+1 for irony given that ^ this came before …
Is there a facepalm emoticon on this thing? :rolleyes:
Truefact, even a 12 year old on the internet with a dictionary is still a 12 year old :china:
But this is a crouch throw tech senario…
That would be true if you stood up to tech the throw…remember gouken has one of the best overheads in the game. Just put 1+1 together and think about what I am saying for a moment. If you stand to break you eat crouching strong.
Give him:
3 frame jab and crouching strong punch is cancelble into his hadoken. Mix up game just became S-teir.
wtf you mean kongo is not a good ability?? LOL
Give him an extra special move for better wake up, ability to link into combos, and make his demon flip faster with more options (ie El Fuerte’s options)…
Everything else needs to be the same or he’d be too powerful
To Sablicious:
Dude. I think the reason why people don’t like you in this thread has nothing to do with your input or your opinions or even your i-use-better-words-than-everyone-else-in-this-thread-so-i’m-better-than-you style of putting forth those inputs and opinions.
No. The reason is beause your a dick.
We are supposed to be helping each other out. If you have such grand knowledge about Gouken, then by all means, master, teach us with patience and respect. But dude, even if you are the best Gouken ever, and your opinions are the best, no one cares because of the way you respond to people.
No one cares about what you have to say, even if it’s revelatory, because of your arrogance ad obvious elitist persona. Just quit posting dude. Or if you do, chill the fuck out. If someone disagrees with you, take it like a man instead of hiding behind your vocabulary. We can all see right through it.
It’s a shame i’m saying this beacause i actually do like hearing what you have to say. But i’d care about that more if you’d stop being such a pompous dick to everyone.
I’m sure i’ll get a dick response from you about this post, i hope you prove me wrong.
I think if Gouken’s mix up were as good as Fuerte he’d be instantly over-powered.
So, I’ve been playing more ranked matches, which I’ve found is where the G1 folks hang out on the PC since there is no G1 (sucks! Took me 2 days to get my 3rd round fight, now who knows how long I’ll have to wait to get a semi-final). In that time, I’ve come to this conclusion:
Gouken needs only 3 improvements:
- Tatsu, at all levels, should hit crouching opponents
- Tatsu, at all levels, should have guaranteed hits as soon as one hit connects
- His low kongo should have more reliable return vs. crouching punches/mid attacks (very frequently I’ve noticed that the counter vs. ryu crouch jab, for instance, will just make both attacks whiff)
He doesn’t need to be able to counter reversals. That is a bad, bad idea. He already has a strong cross-up game on downed opponents, and his fireball game is 100% safe on fallen foes (even Chun-Li w/ultra as long as you get the fireball off before she stands). His tatsu, however, always punishes gouken on anything other than a perfect connection. No other move in the game is so detrimental to the character. Yes, on a perfect connection it does good damage, but that is only in a combo or on wakeup against an inexperienced player.
I like how the Tatsu hits high. It is good against the Shoto’s Tatsus and Rose’s turn punch since they over power his palm strike . I would like to see either mk or hk version still hit high and the other two hit low. Also allow for ex-version with lk/mk for low hitting and mk/hk hit high. Also do the same for his ex-fireball lp/mp for the current angles. But for mp/hp let him shoot at those two angles. Or a vertical one and the hp angle. Besides that 3 frame jab. Maybe a tweak to palm for a faster start up or something.
You just said his palm was OP then said to buff it?? :looney:
His Tatsus don’t need to hit “low” they need to hit crouching opponents. Hitting low entails you have to block it ducking. I also don’t know what people are thinking when they say make this move an overhead…
It needs a hitbox that extends down to his knees so that a player can block any tatsu standing and a ducking character doesn’t cause a 100% whiff (even when an opponent attacks) with a 37 second recovery.
I’m not sure how reversals being unable to armor break a counter makes it OP, can you explain? How does an air parry functioning as an air parry on your opponents wakeup make it OP? Right now, it makes demon flip nearly useless to do on someones wakeup if they have a SRK since reversal will destroy all your options. How is it op to throw out a reversal in the middle of a block a string when you know your opponent is mashing SRKs in blockstun? As it is now, if you KNOW they are mashing an srk and you do a counter, YOU get hit thanks to armor break reversal. Shouldn’t you be the one winning this? Not seeing how this is creating an OP situation. If opponent doesn’t mash out the SRK, you just lost momentum.
I’m also not sure where you are getting the idea that Gouken can throw out fireballs all willy nilly on Chun Li when she has Ultra. If you want to throw a fireball on a Chun Li with Ultra, you had better be doing it from full screen so it doesn’t hit you. I’d love to see Gouken have the balls to throw a fireball at a Chun Li with Ultra from half screen on her wake up. Not safe. At all.
Er that’s not true go look at my post in the gouken forums. Gouken has a Demonflip scenario to beat every reversal in the game, or at least safe jump it on a knockdown easily. Demonflips shouldn’t be able to be spammed against characters that have good anti-air.
His parries really shouldn’t be limited by the focus system. They are to punishable and honestly you think walk up low-parry is any good on wake-up in a game that people throw 70% of the time your within range and not at advantage? Other time it’s a reversal so you do have a case there : P.
Gouken needs normals that are not so slow or he needs major frame tweeks on them. Eitherway his jabs and cl. MP need more + on hit/block. I’d like cl. MP>cr.FP to be a 1 or 2 frame link. His Jabs need +2 on block and I’d say +3 on hit. Him not being jab oriented is perfectly fine and he could keep his damage/options with just some changes like this.
Honestly I don’t like his tatsu hitting crouching and him not having a good reversal is fine with me. Think i said it should earlier,but my mind has been changed after taking him to the training mode. If they hit crouching they need to do less damage
He just needs his tatsu’s only need to be changed to have better vacuuming and quicker recovery. His air tatsu also needs much quicker recovery on landing.
His Jab chain honestly deals good damage at 140-150, just it needs to end in a knockdown somehow without dealing 300 damage non-ultra or super. Maybe make only LK Tatsu hit crouching if you make the jabs linkable?
If he becomes more functional his damage has to go down really that’s the only way from keeping him from being OP. Ryu options but higher than Sagat damage? whatever