Gouken, Make him a Master, SSF4 Changes

Since Gouken doesn’t have one here I am going to start it.

Tatsu should have SRK qualities and hit lower.

Just adding this:

If Gouken is designed to be a heavily zone-centric character, then he pretty much needs his existing tools to be much safer. And he needs the best fireballs in the game, and even then, he does he need some relatively safe ways to close-in for offensive pressure.

Right now, it seems like most of Gouken’s offense is from hoping the opponent screws up (big time), then capitalizing on the opening. Taking risky guessing will only work for so long.

Running Palm:

  • Frame Advantage on block. (make it comparable to the Tiger Knee – Gouken needs some relatively safe offensive pressuring). This is probably the one thing I’d want the most.
  • Needs more dash invincibility, especially on startup for fireball wars. (similar to Balrog’s turn punch)
  • Allow Gouken to connect his tatsu on every character after the EX palm --> dash sequence

Demon Flip:

  • Speed up the non-EX flip
  • Instant recovery on the parry. (Not every opponent has a whiffable SRK)
  • Air-parry non-breakable by reversals.
  • EX version should include a “get away” option (i.e., option to turn off the tracking … (which is useless at point blank … the only good reason to use the EX DF upclose is for the invincibility frames… but it’s useless when you land if you have a crouching jabber). Not my idea. Credit to someone who mentioned this earlier.
  • You should be allowed to activate the dive kick or parry during the ascent phase of the flip.
  • The dive kick should have slightly higher hitstun
  • EX parry safe from armor breaking moves (broken?)


This is a very situational/based-on-luck move. Throwing it out is a pure guess most of the time. It’s equivalent to throwing random Dragon Punches and HOPING for a hit. Against anyone with half a brain, it’s near useless. Still, it could be tweaked.

  • Non-breakable by reversals.
  • Needs to counter throws. At least the EX version.
  • Needs to function even when you’re at pixel of life.
  • Needs to output slightly more damage (it’ll make people think twice about doing random attacks on him)

Top tier (broken?) changes:

  • Normal counter blocks low and high (still vulnerable to throws and armor breaking moves)
  • EX counter is safe from throws, and armor-breaking moves. Make the damage output less here in place of the enhanced safety.
    (Normally I’ve been against the last two, but I’m starting to realize Gouken is practically a cripple upclose)


If Gouken is to be a fireball centric character, then he needs to have the best overall fireballs in the game.

  • Improve the horrendous startup, including the two-hit charge time.
  • The recovery should be worse than Guile’s but better than Sagat’s
  • He should have some half-circle EX version to throw two fireballs horizontally (which can do a knockdown if the opponent is hit on the ground).
  • His air fireballs should have slightly better startup and recovery than the horizontal one (to improve reactionary anti-air properties).
  • Charged fireballs should have a slightly larger hitbox


  • Read the earlier posts. I’ll summarize what I find imporant:
  • Vortex properties.
  • Tweak recovery tremendously (for both ground and air versions)
  • Larger hitbox, should have a faster startup, hit crouching characters
  • Should hit from behind as well
  • Should continue to hit after first hit connects
  • Make it actually reasonable to do the tatsu > FADC > ultra combo in a real match


I think he has great normals.

  • One complaint is that his jab needs more hitstun (the SRK mashers are ridiculous)
  • Should be able to jab into his fireballs (maybe low palm, because I think that would be the “true” reliable counter move he needs).
  • Faster overhead move
  • Slice off a few frames from his back throw.
  • Speed up his c.fp


  • His ultra should have a slight homing feature (-30 to 30 degrees from his vertical axis) to make it a viable anti-air (i.e., if the opponent randomly jumps on top of you, his Shin SRK should be able to hit directly at that angle).
  • Juggle from the two-hit air uppercut into ultra?

New Moves?

  • An air counter? (Would make the parry deprecated, I think)
  • Denjin Hadoken ultra
  • [media=youtube]_5lx8BPICQk#t=3m58s[/media] <-- crumple or wall bounce mechanic possible with something of this form and fits with his strong running palm specials



I agree he needs better wakeup options, but he doesn’t need to be a Ryu clone.

Yeah he needs to be better than Ryu. How would that be cloning Ryu by giving his tatsu srk type properties? Its still a different move.

His counter should not be able to be armor broken. This would be good for the wakeup since people will think twice about crossing up or jumping in.

Be very careful about how you buff Gouken’s wake up options, his zoning game can be nasty as it is. Armour breakers is the lesser of his counters worries.

Better links for hit confirming I would suggest though, perhaps improve the hitstun on his cr.LK so it can function as a typical cr.MK to fireball. If a fireball addition isn’t desired, some improved advantage on hit would be useful for footsies.

His counter move being unbreakable does nothing to help his crossup and jump in situation. It would be just as good as it is now in both those lines of attack.

I’m not sure how the Kongoshin would play out if it was impossible to armour break, because it’s not that good of an ability as is. It’s good, but I’m not sure if this change would make it overpowered.

It would certainly help him against Viper.

his counters being armor broken fucking balances them out because they send them fucking flying full screen on hit.

goddamn, your character is actually fine. stop sucking, stop failing at your own guessing games.

Needs: 3-frame jab. Ex-Tatsu hits crouch.

Wants: more links: cr.mp -> lp. hadouken would be nice. Better startup/recovery on air parry. Give EX Tatsu a vacuum effect so I don’t get punished after only landing a few hits of an already risky move.

DO NOT WANTS: anything resembling a SRK. any changes to backthrow. any changes to parry.

Gouken is a pretty solid character as is, but I think he would definitely benefit from a better wake-up game, better recovery on his air parry (Especially on contact) as well as some more links

Bigger fucking fireballs! He suppse to be a Master, but doesnt looksound like it throwing those puny lil things! Lol!

Gouken’s counter is perfectly fine. If it was invincible to armor breaking attacks, then I guarantee you he would be banned in any decent tournament.

He actually has some decent wake up options. His EX demon flip is one, for example. If there was one thing I would like, it’s that his Tatsu has a few more frames of leverage to (more easily) FADC it into his ultra – but if not, no big deal, he’s already well-rounded.

give him a move called The Raging Angel to fuck gouki’s shit up real fast.

then make his tastu not so damn shitty. i thought SRK recovery was bad.

I would want hurricane to hit low too. Not too much low horizontal range, but some.

If the hurricane recovery is going to be so bad, it should never whiff once you land a hit. Especially EX.

This would make me happy.

Faster start-up on dash punch would also be very welcome.

Horizontal tatsu off his demon flip will give him better wake up options as well.

Wouldn’t removing armor breaking properties from the counter make him overpowered? I’m all for making Tatsu hit crouchers though, or not make you sit in the air waiting to get punished for 3 weeks. Besides that, maybe one move with a 3 frame startup, I don’t care which, I don’t even care if it combos into anything. Just give me an option against c. LP spamming Ryus et Kens (or whoever).

Wouldn’t this make Demon Flip a tad overpowered?

the weakest thing about gouken are his normals. Otherwise he’s pretty good.

C.fp, s.rh are very good normals for gouken.

I wouldnt think so. If you use it on wake up to escape you are blowing an ex bar and just going to the other side of the screen. In normal application, if you miss a Air-tatsu you can really eat an Ultra easy.

Add c.MK and c.MP to this list. I even like c.LK.

True, if you miss. But it still gives you another option out of Demon Flip (where you already have 3), one against jumping people. Guess it doesn’t really matter though since SRK-like anti-airs would still beat it (I assume?).

On another note, considering only fun factor and not balance, being able to Demon Flip out of Palm Slide and linking MP or HP Fireballs out of c.HP would be awesome to use. But thinking about it, if you keep Gouken’s wake-up game as weak as it is, you could give a small buff to his zoning game with the addition of Fireballs out of c.HP by giving you a very small extra damage output on each hit.