The extra start-up and recovery frames on back-throw is really getting to me. I’m trying to play solid, but the slighest moment of forgetfulness with how “option-select block + throw” doesn’t work with Gouken as it does with EVERY SINGLE FUCKING OTHER CHARACTER IN THE ROSTER, really gets to me these days, as I am trying to play solid but a single moment of forgetting you can’t option-select block with a throw tech with Gouken, while you can with ALL OTHER CHARACTERS, is really getting to me these days.
So I keep trying to OS block+tech throw, but get punished as if I were to whiff Zangief’s freaking SPD.
Ya that shit is really annoying. Add that he can’t even crouch tech like the others. It’s like he’s built specifically for Street Fighter 5. And it’s going to be a damn shame when he doesn’t show up.
Huh? You can’t block+stand tech with any character. If you are blocking and you tech a throw, you get a throw whiff animation even at full screen. There’s no OS there. Yeah the whiff throw is obnoxious, but if you’re stand teching you can just do forward throw. You can’t block in that scenario anyway. If you’re talking about the little delay to check for a hit first, you can kick the stick into neutral when you do the throw and still block. It’s a bit harder than it is for other characters I guess, but it does work.
I’m not saying I don’t think it’s dumb, it is (ugh… when you try to hold back+stand tech cody and he neutral jumps and gets a full punish), but it’s not like you can’t get more or less the same option coverage out of Gouken if you want.
Maybe I’m not clear on what you’re talking about, but as far as I know you can’t block and tech a throw at the same time unless you’re crouching.
Crouch tech with jab. Hold down back and plink jab~short. You get to plink with a 3 frame normal and still tech a delayed throw. If you want to crouch tech with a 5 frame normal or crouch tech with a low, use low strong instead. If you’re still crouch teching with low short in 2015 you’re doing it wrong.
You can use cr.MK too; it’s an easier alternative to jab teching but it’s dramatically inferior except at certain ranges where jab doesn’t reach.
But you are perfectly clear on what I’m talking about? You reiterated everything, admitted to having the same gripe as me, touched on the solution as I did, and…
I thought you were referring to something beyond the inconvenience of making it work (saying Gouken’s mechanics prevent him from doing something). If that isn’t the case then my mistake.
BTW, about jab-teching: this was probably the real reason jab was made 3 frames in Ultra. I went back and read some of the quotes and watched that “Peter combofiend rosas here” video and it seems they wanted Gouken players to tech with jab after Ultra dropped.
cr.MP is another similar situation. I don’t think they wanted necessarily for Gouken to be able to poke into a fireball, they just wanted you to be able to go low in close-range situations (for example, in the corner you can fthrow->dash back, small delay jump forward LK and it’s a 5 frame safejump, or you can just empty jump and cr.MP x fireball FADC). It improves his high-low game.
Plink cr.lp->cr.lk. Hit cr.lp first, 1 fr gap, hit cr.lk second. This allows you to “hide” a throw in your jab.
You will jab if they leave a gap 3 frames or higher, and tech if they try to throw. Remember that while low jab has pretty good range for a jab, it’s not exactly as good as most of the game’s low shorts so you will need to stop teching a little early unless you want to get whiff punished hard. What I like to do is jab tech until they are just far away enough and then switch to low forward.
If you think you can get away with the standard 5 frame gap, use strong instead. You should never, ever crouch tech with gouken’s shitty light kick. Fuck that move.
St.lk lp fb is deceptive and creates a lot of space. It is a decent zoning tool used correctly. I’m now very comfortable with all of his lk options, even the weird close one.
But yeah, Gouken has been a fun experience. However, I wonder how things would have turned out if I stuck with a different character. Anybody else? If you could reset to when you started, would you still pick Gouken? Don’t be all nostalgic. From a competitive angle. Would
you?
I understand all of that, I just don’t get the standing light kick cancel into super or whatever move you want to do. Crouching wise it’s a damn good tool to poke long range.
I may have wanted to pick him up after they messed with his back-throw recovery - I had the back-throw to 1-hit jumping MP reset down by the end of vanilla SF4’s life span, but that tinkering they did with it has made the timing unintuitive for me ever since, and it’s only relatively recently that I’ve gotten past the phobia of getting a low counter when going for an anti-air Tatsu.
“Opponent jumps - Gouken stands ready to defend, and lo and behold, instead of countering high with Tatsu, Gouken counters low with nothing and gets a jumping HK to the face”
My first character for about a week was Cammy, but I hadn’t played a fighter in years and years, so I left to find a lower-execution character. I probably would have been better off staying with her, as far as PP goes, but I don’t regret staying with the old man. I don’t go to tourneys. I don’t play money matches. The satisfaction that comes with winning with a lowest tier character is similar to rooting for the underdog.
Some people root for the Yankees. Some root for the Cubbies.
I feel similarly to most of you. I like Gouken but I don’t think I would have mained him. I would have spent more time with the twins, or Ken. Even lately I play mostly Poison.
Gouken works fine as a secondary for hard match-ups, too, since he isn’t super hard to play in those match-ups. You don’t need much technology or execution or anything to counterpick Hugo or Sagat.
