your only option is to return to neutral long enough to erase the db input from block.
tatsu is already a 7 frame startup with no invincibility.
adding frames and complexity in its execution, complexity that results in accidentally executing a move that leaves you completely vulnerable to the jumping attack you were attempting to counter, cripples tatsu to the point that you cannot rely upon it at all outside of combos.
even if you land tatsu, the probability that they will fall out of it and then quick rise to kill you during its extensive recovery makes it a very dubious choice.
My experience is that the timing of joystick movements in SF4 are pretty lenient. Even if you do that fast enough before the next attack hits you (considering the extra time to move forward first, then hcb), it might be so fast that the back or backdown movement from blocking will be included with the joystick movement…which ends you up with a kongo. I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I was learning (but still failed) the timing for an IAT EX-tatsu, sometimes I went nuts and did a super fast near 360 motion starting from forward, moving clockwise. Guess what move popped out? EX demon flip.
it is because moves that use a dp motion have priority in execution over moves that use quarter circle.
that is why mashing always produces dp’s and never fireballs.
If they somehow fixed input priority on Tatsu/Kongo, that alone would make Gouken A tier, just below the big three.
cr.jab out off ex tatsu, really anoying, also take scruby ass shortcuts out of ssf4,not tryna have ex upkicks with DeeJay come out instead of UC1 or 2 or vice versa.
I hope Capcom monitors this thread (wishful thinking I know but…).
What I miss most is the inability for Gouken to link jabs into special moves (palm, tatsu). That’s easily the most obvious flaw in the char design (every other char can link jabs into fierce or specials)… That’s sooo unfair !
EDIT : and this is the absolute last time I’m dealing with this topic as I’m rambling about that over and over lol
There is no way to walk under and punish a cross up with Tatsu adside from using Auto Correct because the srk motions take priority over the FB motions and if you go to neutral then try it’s normally too late.
CAPCOM!!! GET RID OF THE DAMN OVERLAP!!!
It’s even more bothersome when I want to Tatsu FADC tatsu on the other side… if not done 100% correctly you only get KONGO. AS a matter of fact, fix the hit box and start up time on the damn thing while you are at it. 3 frame invincible start up just like SRK’s - “Yup I said it”. And why does he stay in the air sooooo long after it hit’s for a tech-able knock down??? Please fix the start up time, hit box, and make the reovery faster or a non-techable knockdown.
ARRRRRRGGGGGGH!!! LOL
Guys, tatsu sucks but Gouken has many other problems. For example, the option select throw tech is horrific. To be effective you actually have to hold lk+lp+mp - unbelievable.
And I don’t know who said that Gouken isn’t defensive - well maybe not - but he certainly has nothing to attack with so you might as well play defensively!
Gouken only has a problem when someone can get in very close to him, but he zones so well and has a good enough keep away and AA attacks that it’s mostly our fault if they happen to close the distance. Maybe from not enough FB pressure or some times we turtle giving the opponent the opportunity to get close instead of dashing away and poking our way out from a distance. Once some on get’s on top of you, your only options really is to to block/tech, EX DF outta there, dash away to reset some distance after the block string, and use your only 3 frame move… grab the hell outta them.
Aside from command grabs, srks, early jabs, and few other moves that have invincible start up I’ve just been grabbing the hell outta anyone who get’s too close and they haven’t started an attack yet, and the back throw sucks in this case b/c it’s takes 5 frames to start up, but the forward throw is good to get them off of you to set your vortex up or to reset your zoning game, worst case scenario is they tech and that kind resets the distance enough for you to back dash, neutral jump, or get off cr. FP.
I agree 100000% his frame data sucks ass, and he could use a couple of 3 frame normals but when in doubt, block or grab dat ass.
And aside from the shitty frame data up close, what makes Gouken so shitty defensively??? B/C people are afraid of Kongo you get atleast 1-2 cr. FP or close st. hk opportunities just b/c one feels as if he can empty jump in to avoid kongo. Gouken also doesn’t have a reliable quick 2 in 1 such as Ryu’s cr.mk > hadoken… If Gouken could cr. lk > lp hadoken, I think that would help him out tremendously b/c you could actually use it as a keep away and pressure tool.
Besides that, Gouken has a tool to pretty much offset most moves on the game. Granted their are certain moves on the game that are a bitch to deal with anyway, unless you have an srk. That damn srk can punish damn near anything, and they left the old man without one LOL.
Tatsu was supposed to have been compensation for no srk but they fucked it up and didn’t give it the srk’s properites… now why in the hell did they do that???
Edit: And for christ sakes give him a bigger fireball… that shit doesn’t even hit Blanka when he does electricity … sheesh.
The very fact that Gouken has some great punishes is why he is a defensive character. This may seem incongruous to the unenlightened, but in actuality everything in his repertoire from his parries (obvious defensive move) to his back-throw (only reaction techable throw in the game… unless used as a counter) screams ‘COUNTER ATTACK!!’, ie. punish your opponent for their mistakes (/aggression).
Sure, as with any character, Gouken can be used proactively and offensively. SFIV’s game mechanic is primarily attack orientated after all (NB: it’s 2010) - something that holds the game back from the pantheon of great fight-games imo, and has a lot to do with why Gouken is comparatively weak. But, jumping in like a flowchart Ryu is not what whoever designed him (EGM?! :lol:) had in mind methinks.
It was obvious (to me at least) from the get-go that he was intended to be the ‘water’ to Gouki’s (and others’) ‘fire’. This is what attracted me to the character… what’s kept me playing this game in fact. To play Gouken the way I believe he was intended to be played, the idea is to frustrate your opponent into humiliating themselves! I don’t mean turtle. In fact (eg.) if they do try chip you to death (happens all the time), Focus absorb or counter.
Don’t jump. Build meter. Show 'em some potential big damage chocolate cake… garnished with a potential early Ultra ‘Guatemalan insanity pepper’! :razzy:.
Bait them. Make them come to you, like a moth to a flame. Then… THEN… then you shouldn’t need me to tell you what to do next! 
The obvious disclaimer/caveat is his high executional prerequisite. But herein lies the charm of Gouken. For anyone who understands this character beyond the demeaning ‘Hado, Hado, Hado… EX palm, palm (…) back-throw Ultra’ will embrace this aspect of his make up. Anyone else will reject him outright.
Gouken is a homage to old school players who place skill and gameplay integrity above all else. Gamers who stood toe-to-toe in arcades and would rather take an honorable hair’s breadth defeat than to stoop to a shameful tick-throw win.
If you do not understand this, much less refuse to accept it on such petty grounds as ‘playing to win’ etc…
“You are not ready…”
:china:
It has been already said that giving Gouken almost any link, save for maybe c.lp > c.mp (which at most leads to a non-combo FB or a tatsu if you like risks), would make him S-tier, and I have to agree.
A link to EX-Palm could give us 50% damage capabilities off one bar, which is something that no other character can do, although you could say that many only need 2 and I would not have a rebuttal for you…
On the other hand, just fixing the Tatsu/Kongo command mess would just make him work as intended.
That’s all I ask for!
Edit: someone mentioned execution as a barrier for Gouken. I do not see that, and I am no Momochi on the stick. What am I missing?
Is it?
Ever notice how suddenly several characters get invincibility frames on their lower body when doing a jump forward fierce attack… and you have to watch a high fireball pass through them? (Then eat a ton of damage despite reading their jump-in). THAT is annoying.
Yeah I have that mostly with Gen and Balrog, but that usually only happens with strong fireballs, fierces will usually still catch them. I do swear though, Balrogs legs passing through fireballs has agitated me to no end.
Maybe it was designed on purpose to be that way. Not sure. I’d rather not justify it though 
(Blanka is even worse when it comes to unusual hitboxes (iamthatiam mentioned him earlier … I share your pain too))
Finally someone who feels me…SAB…good shit…goke is for the old schoolers!!! The og’s…the guile airthrow generation! In fact my style gets hated by so many g-1 ers they call me a noob!
I say keep him the same and ill still whoop ass in ssf4! ADD ME AND GET AT ME!!!
Isn’t it? 
Jumping is the most effective move in SFIV… closely followed by LP+LK.
Hence why it’s such a popular game, unlike SFIII for example.
My GT is my handle.
However, I don’t particularly like mirror matches. I’d petition for a filter for this in fact if I thought the suggestion had even a snow flake’s of being taken seriously. I also only use Gouken ('Gief when intoxicated). I usually accept mirrors (as rare as they are with this character… surprise, surprise) to take the piss by attempting (and mostly doing ^^) near impossible shit then DC-ing with a Parthian "Try Ken ^- " valediction! :badboy:
But yeah - I was certain I wasn’t alone in this ‘old school’ mentality. Gouken, aka Sheng long(!), stemming from the history he does and thus representing the gamers that era spawned, it seems obvious he’s made for those of us who roll our eyes at the umpteenth SRK >Ultra finish to a tourney match. He takes skill to win with, even more skill to look good doing so. But at least you CAN look good using this character, and when you do win, it’s generally satisfying. Which more than can be said for lot of the other characters in the game.
Word!
I think I’ll respectfully disagree that SFIV is an aggressive game.
I’d use that sometimes. But since I assume ~90% of matches are Ryu mirrors, the cries of not being able to find a match online would drown Capcom’s customer service center…so no, I don’t think it’ll ever happen.
Oddly, last night I ran into like 3 or 4 different Gouken’s within a hour or two. Weird. I’m glad that doesn’t happen all the time.