All? No.
Better? Yes.
We have mp.palm back to punish that again, which really helps in my eyes. I read time and again about how you could dash sweep in AE, but I not once got that to work. I’d get blocked or dash > hk. flip kick thanks to my dum dum hands and shortcuts. On that note but off topic, how in the world are Sagats kara canceling forward lk into low tiger shot? When I’ve tried that (I like playing Sagat once in a blue) I always get tiger knee. Any movement like this lands me the srk motion move, not the qcf move. Another example: I’ve tried dashing in with akuma to do cr.mk > hado but 90% of the time I get an srk. It’s the shortcuts, I think, but if other people can do it I want to know how. Back to neutral first?
use hcf or db, qcf as your input.
If you go from holding forward straight into fireball motion any srk input will always take priority.
Will try…heh, sometimes muscle memory can be a problem.
I guess there is less to complain about now, as is evidenced by this thread going inactive for weeks.
Let me start this right up then… I’m still pretty pissy with non-ex Tatsu.
Sure, EX tatsu is great, but non-ex ground tatus? It is just wtf suckiness:
[LIST]
[]Coming out fucking slow… 7 frame? Even T-hawk’s Tomhawk buster, snake strike, falling sky, a lot of anti-air that are considered “Bad” are way faster then Tatsu
[]Absolutely no invulnerability. No hit invulnerability, no throw invulnerability, no projectiles invulnerability… You would think it would give you just a little bit of invulnerability… but nope. None at all whatsoever.
[]No vulnerability? Well it should have a decent recovery then, right? NOPE. Guess again. How does WORST RECOVERY IN THE ENTIRE GAME FOR SPECIAL MOVE sound to you?
[]Ok… so let’s make it count when it hit… again. NOPE. It drops and punishable on hit. I think this is the only move that are ultra punishable on hit anywhere on screen. At least other move that are punishable on hit are screen edge dependent. Oh you hit someone? Good for you, let me combo the fuck out of you when I drop out and you are still floating down like a blimp.
[]Then it must do hell lota damage right? NOPE. Sure, you can sorta count the 13 frame start up anti-air, then it perhaps does more damage, but the small and medium one actually do pretty crappy damage. Small (the only usable one in anti-air situation) does 150, both rising jaguar, falling sky, Tomhawk buster does more.
[]Okay… so it must have an awesome hit box… right? NOPE, can’t hit couching character. And misses any move that reduces hitbox. To be fair, this isn’t the absolutely worst thing there is… there are other anti-air move that doesn’t hit anything but air. I guess this kinda sorta qualifies as a redeemable feature, If you can call not being absolutely worst at something a redeemable feature.
[]Alright… does it even break armor? NOPE again.
[]Is there any redeemable quality on non-ex tatus at all? Oh, yes, it does excellent damage off EX palm and backthrow. And juggles pretty well. Yes, that is the one single thing it is used for, to juggles. Absolutely nothing else.
[*]Oooh oh I think of something else. It can FADC into ultra! So fucking awesome EXCEPT IT ALMOST ALWAYS CROSS UNDER on FADC dash forward, and dashing backward, well, you know that doesn’t get you anything. This is one of the rare FADC move that is just not safe to pull into ultra all the time due to the quick reaction you need to have to not let cross under fool you. Then again, if you use it as a mix up, I suppose it is somewhat interesting… if it only hit crouching so you didn’t risk your ass on the off chance that they are not crouching. Seeing Gouken also have one of the best sweep in the game, and dive kick can be blocked low, is there any reason they are not crouching beside reacting an over head?
[/LIST]
Are you seriously fucking kidding me? The more I think about it the more I realize just how shit crappy this move is.
Every night is a struggle.
its a combo finisher, now you can: jump in attack >mp x 3>tatsu for over 350 dmg on almost anyone.
it almost always link from far mp on the entire cast all we do is look for ex tatsu or hk tatsu as the ender from far mp.
If they ever improve our regular tatsu, expect nerfs to our counters. It’s the move that stole tatsu’s fast startup, invincibility and armourbreak afterall.
Gouken gets more damage off of a single meter than anyone else in the game because of his tatsu (Gouken’s single-meter damage capabilities would actually be 2nd to E.Ryu’s if not for Gouken’s tatsu.) Granted, the EX palm launcher is the main tool setting this up, but without tatsu, the best Gouken could do after a launch (without spending meter) would be hp.palm. Dash forward > hk.tatsu does about 30% more damage than hp.palm at any point in damage scaling after a launch. In most cases this means anywhere from 27 to 45 (depending on the length of the combo) more damage simply because you used dash tatsu instead of palm, no extra meter required.
There are big downsides to the move, but in reality it is quite powerful strictly from a damage standpoint. The HK version does 185 damage on its own, and is currently the strongest meterless combo-able move in the game (not counting combos involving stuns, FAs, or Balrog’s final TAP).
Another aspect worthy of note is the fact that if you -successfully- perform the move as an anti-air, you get the full damage of the move. This is something most DP-like moves trade in for their invulnerability: they only do about 50-70% of their normal damage against airborne opponents. Other anti-airs that don’t suffer this damage reduction generally don’t do a lot of damage on their own anyway (example: Blanka’s up-ball is 120 damage max, compared to hk.tatsu’s 185). Still other anti-airs that have lots of really good properties (like Guile’s flash kick breaking armor and covering a ton of space) have low damage -and- suffer from damage reduction against airborne opponents.
Do I think Gouken’s tatsu needs to have as many downsides as it currently has? No, but there are good reasons they felt the need to err on the side of too many.
I’d prefer less damage in return to get a few things removed from ID01’s list like missing crouchers, faster startup, and not dropping people. Dropping people is really, really what makes this move extra terrible, because even if you use it correctly and hit with it, it might just let the character out…who then recovers on the ground long before you come back down. Stupid…and feels like a design mistake. We need to use a bar to guarantee that our move actually does what is intended? I can deal with no invulnerablity, I can even deal with the shit recovery (as long as it doesn’t drop a character) because let’s face it, if people are punishing Ken or Oni after their srks, they are going to be able to punish you no matter what your recovery is.
I wish Gman’s backdash was better.
This would be more useful than improving tatsu.
Good Rose player just destroyed me with strings. I almost never mash but I have to admit that this time I did try to desperately score some kongo hits. The match feels so retarded. You can’t zone her, she can just backdash for free (don’t know how to punish unless I do a point-blank palm which is just stupid) and be at the perfect range for her normals.
And then I faced Seth, Akuma, Blanka, Yun and Fei players…it’s like watching the same nightmare over and over again. You just don’t get used to it no matter how many times you die.
Today I felt like Gouken should have Shin’s suicide special (Hokuto no Ken ps2). Would have made it more bearable.
See this for help with Rose and the OS’ing. Character Specific Option Selects and situational tactics
The key to that match up is attacking her wake up and making her aware that you can Neutral jump her Soul Sprial for BIG Damage. If you are going to zone her, do so mid screen. If you zone her full screen she’ll build meter like crazy by just absorbing it. Full Screen Zoning is for when Gouken has the lead in this MU. Chucking Fireballs at Rose is what most of them want to see happen anyway, but if you get Mid Screen and play with the charge times you might find some success.
If Reflect/Absorbs mid screen, you have a few options to rush in behind it. just Mashing Kongo is no good b/c Soul Spiral breaks armor. The EX Verison has some hit invincibility too, so she will do a normal Spiral and follow up with EX. AND they are SAFE LOL. So the rule of thumb is whenever she has EX and is doing block strings. NO Kongo unless you NEVER see her use EX. Just keep that mental note towards the end of the round or when you need that wtf moment to change the match.
The one thing in common with all of the Characters you mentioned is that you can knock them all down and go on offense through safe jumps and OS.
With Akuma just stuff his DP and OS Fireball or Denjin is he teleports. You can also just choose not to OS and watch to see if he teleports and then just palm him.
Some people are against playing with Gouken agressively, but in some of these matches you have no choice or they will just run through you and do you like you should have done them.
If Gouken can’t force mistakes and predict their patterns then he’s kinda on the short end of the stick in these type of match up.
You will also find that alot of these MU’s will crouch tech b/c they have the advantage to hit confirm to something if it hit’s to combo, frame trap, bait, or string out. So low counter to catch someone that is Teching All of your Throws is a very powerful tool if they try to abuse it.
But it can be a bit tricky with NO Srk.
If your going to throw fireballs from long range against Rose, do a angled one, They get puzzled so easily haha.
They might even do their own fireball if they think you’ll throw another angled and maybe a Ex DF to catch em, but i guess own discretion is important for that
Just FYI anything cancelled into soul spiral is not a true blockstring.
If she is abusing that string into soul spiral just mash an Ultra between it. It’s like Gouken’s cr.mp xx fireball, completely unsafe, just that she breaks armor with her special and we don’t.
She wasn’t stupid enough to spam that stuff. Have to give the player some credit, because connecting Rose’s bnb online is not easy but this fella didn’t drop stuff even once during our 8 matches (1-7 lol)
She used this weird thing during wake-up (watched the replay and it was lp+lk+mp+mk + backdash) . Looked pretty good, might use it myself.
In the end my only chance to get in was to focus her standing normals. I did score some nice damage with j.lk shenanigans in the corner but so did Rose. J.lk, cr.hp, ex.spark, cr.mp…yadayada…dizzy. Then focus crumble, slide, activates orbs, and the great guess challenge was upon me again :P.
Empty jump > lp.palm or j.mk xx lp.palm should work…or ultra OS.
I was hoping Gouken would be in Street Fighter X Tekken until I saw this shit.
WHO in the hell is that Black??? There’s no BROWN color from the start?? What kind of shit is that??
That shit look Racist as hell.
[media=youtube]rJeWqCYPG30[/media]!
I wouldn’t take the colour choice that way, by the looks of it every bit that can be coloured gets 2 base tints(basiclaly along the lines of what the team would have chosen back in sf2) and the addition of black and white(quite possibly the 2 most popular colours(don’t argue semantics that they aren’t colours, you know what I mean)ever costume wise) which allow the creation of evil themed costumes or angelic themed ones(like how Gouken 10 is basically him with skin set to white and clothing set to black).
Now that the guy who made the video set everyones colours on every bit to black and then set ravens skin colour to white, well that was a bit more in the wrong direction. Then again he was maybe afraid of possible backlash if he had made Raven all black.
I would still love to see Gouken and/or Karin make the game. I already gots mah Juri, but she needs a partner <3