I"m maining sagat. Fuck that shit. I can beat yuns and feis with t. hawk with SO MUCH less effort than with gouken. Now I just need someone to handle charge characters that is not a 7x3.
Seriously, I have no trouble with anyone else on the cast with gouken except yun and fei. I have a little trouble against viper but it’s purely my fault, I see the mistakes I’m making and how little technology I have against her.
Against Yun there’s SO little you can do once he’s up close and it’s retardedly easy for him to get there. Now with the nerf, the kongo becomes simply useless against divekicks, when it’s uses were already limited.
WHY is Gouken’s parry so fucking stupid now?! Someone jumps in and I counter high. COUNTER HIT!!!
Okay, must be medium even though he’s fucking jumping in, whatever I’ll just remember that next ti-COUNTER HIT!!!
NOW IT’S HIGH!!!
It should’ve just been lp = low, mp = high, hp=WHO GIVES A SHIT
Maybe, but I don’t think so. I think it was just hell for hawk to get in before AE, if the hawk player didn’t know better than to not Jump at gouken but rather walk forward, focus fireballs and block. I haven’t played against many hawks, let alone good ones since AE dropped so I could be wrong. But I see hawk as Gief with an uppercut. Plus his new ex dive should makes zoning him no different from gief. I think it’s 5-5, but I could be wrong.
T.Hawk Player here. The Gouken/T.Hawk matchup is definitely in Gouken’s favor in AE. In Super this matchup was horrendously difficult, I would go even as far as saying that this matchup is 8-2 in Gouken’s favor. In Super, fighting Gouken with T.Hawk is just like fighting Dhalsim. He makes it really hard for T.Hawk to even touch him, and the best answer that T.Hawk has to get through his wall of fireballs is to EX Condor Spire, but even that move doesn’t cover much distance
and with Gouken throwing those fireballs constantly T.Hawk has extremely few opportunities to build the meter to EX Condor Spire. In AE, I’d say this matchup is 7-3 in Gouken’s favor, just because T.Hawk has more answers to get past Gouken’s fireballs and since Gouken is considered weaker.
No offense, I don’t want to come across as rude or condenscending… but if you think the match is 8-2 in super, then I can’t really take your opinion seriously. Don’t misunderstand, it very well may be in goukens favor still, but it widely considered a 6-4 goukens favor before, like you said T-hawk got better and Gouken got worse, so…
I’m not surprised, lol. 8-2 in Gouken’s favor does sound excessive I admit, as Super was pretty well balanced. This is just my opinion based on my experience with some really good Gouken players who knew the matchup really well and never fell for T.Hawk’s gimmicks. However, If you we’re to ask some experienced T.Hawk players for numbers on this matchup, I’m willing to bet that many of them will say that this matchup is 7-3 in Gouken’s favor or more. 7-3 in Gouken’s favor is usually the general consensus among experienced T.Hawk players when it comes to the Gouken/T.Hawk matchup in Super (Maybe AE too).
It’s true that T.Hawk became a better character while Gouken became worse, but the dynamics of the matchup is exactly the same as they we’re before. Gouken is still this huge wall that T.Hawk has a really hard time getting past. One of the biggest reasons why the matchup became easier for T.Hawk is because he’s able to use EX Condor dive alone now, which also has projectile invincibility, so it gives him an anti-projectile option while in the air now, which is helpful.
The problem though, is that T.Hawk depends heavily on EX to get close to Gouken. His EX Moves are his only moves that have projectile invincibility, and with Gouken throwing those fireballs out at him, it slows him down, preventing him from building meter quickly from the other side of the screen. I’m not saying that T.Hawk’s only options to get close is to use EX, as he can absorb a fireball with a FA and just dash. The problem with this though, is that his dash is so slow and it barely covers any distance. It is so risky to keep absorbing fireballs with the FA and dashing just to get closer to Gouken, and this is why EX is extremely essential in this matchup for T.Hawk.
Gouken is just this huge wall that’s hard for T.Hawk to get past.
Firstoff, that’s completely false. Zangief doesn’t have to use any meter at all to come close to Gouken because he already has 2 meterless options (Regular GH/Lariat) that not only have projectile invincibility but build meter at the same time. Secondly, why do you have to involve other characters to support your argument? That’s a sign that you obviously don’t have alot of experience with the Gouken/T.Hawk matchup and naturally assume that since Zangief is large grappler-type character like T.Hawk, that he struggles just as much as T.Hawk does. Not true.
I think your problem is that you’ve accepted that Gouken is not a solid character in AE, and so you just have a hard time believing that he has a matchup that is THAT dominant. If you wanna keep thinking the way you are, that’s perfectly fine. I’ll just let you keep losing matches you should be winning more.
both gh and lariat are punishable on block and only ex gh goes through fireballs, 2nd I’m illustrating a point because obviously the characters are similar. Like I said I can’t take someone who says the match is 8-2 gouken seriously, no good t-hawk would say that lol. I’m done with you. if you voted during the community tier list project, your vote would have been thrown out for such a stupid assessment, your opinionion is an outlier. I’m not here to get into some tier oppression olympics with your wack ass. you have a hard time with a character so you go and complain about said character on the players board? lol…“I’m a wack ass t-hawk and I stay losing to zangief, Are you sure this is a matchup in my favor?” What the fuck kind of mindset is that? Stay free.
Your both nuts, but just FYI, lariat gets past nothing. Punch lariat gets gouken flip swept for free, kick lariat and be hit in recovery with palm. If you are doing either to avoid fireballs at the other end of the screen you are making a mistake.
I’ve NEVER EVER seen a gief green hand a fireball trying to get in on me. In theory, sure, in reality? No way. I’m sure it would work if you were God, but I’ve never seen a gief do it to me. not even try.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I’m so disillusioned with Gouken now. Before, in vanilla and Super, he was challenging to use well and win against the top tiers but now it’s just plain ridiculous. I feel that Gouken’s game has improved against most of the cast in AE but it’s those damn twins and Fei Long I can’t seem to handle. Ridiculous pressure and scarce opportunity to punish an error. I’m now at a cross road, if I quit Gouken then I may as well quit AE because no other cast member holds my interest or I continue to work my nuts off trying to beat yun/yang/fei in a match up which feels enormously (and intentionally!) one sided.
Fuck Gouken… That’s the conclusion I came to, after I took him to 5k bp. I mean Capcom surely did, why wouldn’t I? I don’t even have fun now using him it feels like I’m trying to be polite to my opponent just by choosing him…
Now that I let my frustration out I can go back to maining someone else
I got to 11.5k bp in Super, after 6 months of a SSF4 break.
Restarting back at 0 in AE i found quite nice, (I felt people were seeing the 11.5k and had expectations)
I am having fun playing him again, I find i struggle using the parry with confidence except EX.
If anyone can give their combo for this situation i would be obliged:
During Super when i had the opponent near the corner (But not in) and i landed an EX Palm, I would m.Hado > l.Palm. (With the corner allowing connection).
But in AE i can do m.Hado but the l.Palm doesn’t go any distance and m.Palm doesn’t connect either.
Has anyone found a nice combo to substitute this?
(Maybe m.Hado > forward.dash >h.Tatsu?)
My other experience is that i’ve completley changed the way i’ve played into a more Fireball > Anti Air , Demon flip style.
And i utilise j.HP > c.HP > l.Hado > FADC > c.HP > EX.Palm …etc
It’s a decent Half health gone combo. Sweet ^^
But as a fighting game player i usually tend to gravitate to lower/mid tiers.
I like the challenge.
the nerf to counter wasn’t as bad as the buff to ex tatsu was good.
the loss of the old lp. palm sucks.
the nerf to backthrow was the worst thing that happened to him and was completely unnecessary in my opinion.
but, we got the df parry buff, 3 frame cl. mk xx new lp. palm (which is a pretty good setup for hit confirm super) and the new cl.mp.
overall, i think he is a little bit less effective because backthrow is so much worse.
i wish they hadn’t kicked it in the nuts like that.