I know there is some frustration, but I’m beginning to think many of us don’t understand Gouken.
I agree… I play the game without referring those frame datas etc… I play with feeling… I just got better feeling playing with the new Gouken…
I visited this thread to just see whether i can learn anything new here, such as combos, or matchups. Unfortunately, i read more complains than anything else.
Hopefully thats just the case. i find myself having a harder time playing as gouken in ssf4…
In the beginning I did as well… but I’ve made adjustments. Against good players the GF dive kick was going to be blocked by knowledgeable players any way, so we just need to find a few more shennanigans for it to either make them whiff, or land just outside of range to counter attack them with cr. fp, kongo, neutral j. hp, or dashing under their jumping attack and pushing with back throw. In fact there are a few options you have, you can also FA and dash to safety or punish them if they made a bad decision.
Of course there will be some frustration, b/c there are just some BAD match ups for Gouken. The good thing is now, EVERYONE can replay their fights and see how they lost or different things they can add to their game. Their are some things that are point blank stupid, such as 1p vs. 2p facing hit boxes and why cr. mp > lp hado doesn’t work out side of combos, but from what I can tell about Gouken, he is a frame trapping machine, and the fact that some of his moves don’t combo but still act as a block string helps him out even more.
But I think Gouken is FAR from garbage, we just have to understand the little nuances of our match ups better and figure out ways to adjust from there.
Now I do wish the Denjin was FASTER… it kinda frustrates me that I can’t catch opponents full screen after a HP hado. They’ve also made it harder to follow up with Palm since they’ve shortened the distance of it… but on the other side it’s been waaaaaaay easier to complete safe palms. Even the EX version pushes you back so far that if some one reverses with an srk they only get 1 hit that doesn’t send you airborne and you get to punish.
Music to my ears, hopefully I’ll have a chance of testing it tomorrow, can’t wait to try the new version of the old master.
now i dont know if you main gouken and ONLY play him. but I play online and gouken is the only character i play and im devoted to him. i can probably speak for everyone that if you play gouken enough, the holes in his game, that just a little hitbox tweak or one or two more frames of invincibility on backdash or just knowing that VERY LITTLE, SUBTLE TWEAKS could make a whole lot of difference for gouken.
its like “god damn it i wish c.mp hitstun would be +6 on hit (giving him a liink into c.hp)” or “i wish i had 1-2 more frame of invincibility on backdash so i can get away from fuerte when on wake up”
anybody else notice that it’s easier to do his chains now? just feels easier and more natural. also, it feels like hk tatsu launches just a bit higher than in sf4. could just be my imagination though, but it would’ve been nice for it to launch much higher since it’s much riskier than an srk. risk reward is fucked up for a lot of characters in this game.
i think it’s still a little early to call gouken garbage but if there aren’t any new discoveries with him then he actually seems a little worse than he was in sf4. worst part is that can be said for the majority of the returning cast in ssf4 and the game is less interesting this way. nothing new to learn outside of a few changed properties on some moves and less possibilities.
anybody else notice that it’s easier to do his chains now? just feels easier and more natural. also, it feels like hk tatsu launches just a bit higher than in sf4. could just be my imagination though, but it would’ve been nice for it to launch much higher since it’s much riskier than an srk. risk reward is fucked up for a lot of characters in this game.
i think it’s still a little early to call gouken garbage but if there aren’t any new discoveries with him then he actually seems a little worse than he was in sf4. worst part is that can be said for the majority of the returning cast in ssf4 and the game is less interesting this way. nothing new to learn outside of a few changed properties on some moves and less possibilities.
I main Gouken too, i tried to play other characters such as Ryu & Abel, but still go back to Gouken. I also fully aware his shortcomings.
But with his faster normal, I can do much more block strings and run away if needed. Now I play him with more aggressive manner, I rather rush down to people than let opponent trap Gouken in his unfavourable position. Of course I must know the match up, ESP new characters.
Even though I said this statement… his tatsu should have = an SRK. I can’t explain how frustrated I am with the bullshit right now… It’s either block and be grabbed. There’s gotta be a better way, it just pisses me off that other people can jab in to what the hell ever… and Gouken and only chain jab out safely. If he had an SRK type move to prevent all the fucking grabbing then everything would be all good. When they are in close Gouken is at their mercy… and this can be a bit frustrating after a while. Maybe I just need a break.
Yeah, Gouken’s wake-up options (Or lack thereof) can be seriously rage inducing, I know. I too, also hate the fact that whenever I’m forced into a corner or an untechable knockdown, my only best option is to either block or tech. In all his other wake-up moves, for every one answer each of them provide, the opponent has at least 2 options to beat it. Why does he have to be so defensive?
Also, i have had a problem connecting s.fp > f.palm on certain characters . I will hit them with the s.fp but, then they will block the f.palm… am i doing something wrong because i didnt have this problem in vanilla. 
I don’t remember where I saw this but, they did reduce the blast arc on his Kongo. 
I’m thinking it was a nerf to compensate Guile… what bullshit. You can double kongo it… but if he follows with empty jump Gouken is screwed.
Because they add a whiff to the Gouken Flip Grab and changed overhead, it has pretty much removed any of his rushdown options. I figured this much, this is why I started the thread with the block strings > mix up options b/c it’s no more get in there and grab the shit out of em Gouken off a whiffed DF. Nope… I’ve had to change the way I play period. I guess that could be a good thing in the end, but I’ve taken quite a few lumps along the way. Who know’s though… I’m comparing how I learned to play over a year or so to a couple of days now… but never-the-less… these changes make it a little more difficult to play with Gouken. I guess they wanted him to be a zone-poke-counter hit character. Well Capcom… you def. completed that task. I don’t want Gouken to be brain dead to play, but you can’t play wrecklessly with him at all You have to be ever better with your block > tech game more than ever now.
Have you checked this yourself in training mode? I don’t have the game… reading about these endless nerfs are making me hesitant to even bother playing SSFIV. Those little adjustments start to matter a lot when you have a character with several fundamental holes to begin with.
Maybe its me… but I’m losing alot more b/c Gouken Flip has been nerfed to shit.
Damn folks!!!
I just can’t believe this shit… NONE of my Rushdown shit works anymore.
Welcome to Nerf Fighter IV.
iamthatiam, not trying to be an ass or anything, but you should read your posts in this thread. it’s quite confusing.
What do you mean???
I’ve been flip flopping alot, b/c I’ve been trying to adjust… one minute I love him… the next I hate em bc what they’ve done b/c I’m so used to certain strategies.
I understand. I’m more and more getting the feeling gouken is a huge gamble right now. You have tools to destroy anyone in the cast pretty fast, but you have to play offensive, and rushing with gouken for me is just a huge risk.
I’ve just went back to my old philosophy and that’s when they get in close… you gotta just block and be ready to tech. I think I was trying to fight my way out of bad situations, and leaving him too open for attack alot today. Got back on my streak so I ain’t trippin… Losing sucks b/c in endless battle you have to wait again.