I’m also talking about being lead in with df dive kick or j fp. I think the stun with a hp fp and tatsu following the palm is something in the high 800 like 854 or 864 which is pretty much one or to moves away from a stun on most of the cast. After techable knockdowns I like to stand about outside of sweep range and punish with fbs in the corner with goukens recovery can keep pummeling with fbs to chip and keep the stun going and if they try and get out the recovery on the lp fb pretty much lets you find away to counter most of their escape routes.
The risk would be to lose 2 EX Bars if it doesn’t land, especially using stand alone hado > fadc. I agree that it is alot less risky using Cr. FP or your hado as hit confirm.
Tatsu in the corner does very good damage, I’ve been staying away from it as of late b/c of the recovery on that damn thing and using a reset or cr. roundhouse for the hard knock down instead. It pisses me off to no end that I can wam-bam-thank-you-mam a fool and they recover to punish me as I recover from float down. What is your set up to keep the momentum going after corner tatsu???
Goukens FB corner trap is nothing short of spectacular!!! It sets you up for damn near anything while leaving your opponent to try something risky to get the hell out of being chipped to death. I always be like ahh shit, when I’m in a mirror match and the opponent has me in the corner on wake up.
As for momentum after tatsu I try to avoid it was only using that for Max values in training. J.hp>>cr.hp xx lp hado fadc cr.hp xx ex palm >> hp fb >> hk tatsu was what combo I did for the values. But I usually try not to tatsu near corner even after successful hits still leaves you at I think neg frames If they tech the knockdown much prefer 2 fb’s into sweep or fierce punch resets. Goukens tatsu is the only move I think I’ve ever seen that can get you punished on a successful hit. Which really sucks cause it hits good is possible to fadc and has good stun value.
ok… cool, I though I was tripping for a sec.
Another useful tactic is to go Palm FADC > Ultra for the finish or damage opportunity. There are plenty ways to transition into this and I don’t see any Goukens using it.
Regular palm fadc ultra? Cause that seems to be hit or miss sometimes it connects sometimes it don’t and if I already burnt 3 bars doing hado fadc into cr.hp xx ex palm if I had enough for ultra would tack on that, I guess u could do cr.hp xx tatsu fadc for 4 bars of stock would look flashy as hell but would kinda be a waste of stock.
You know when you mp/hp hado > palm??? you just… mp/hp hado > palm fadc > Ultra. Use if you can catch them jumping out of the corner too after you fb you palm and blast them to bits.
Another good set up is if I push them in the corner. I meaty fireball and palm fadc frame trap. No hit ??? Go for the grab if it hit’s Ultra that hoe. Your meaty fireball can also act as hit confirm. It’s kinda similar to what you do in the corner with hado > cr. FP you are only using hado > palm instead and you are further away. If you can sldo do fb > DFK > Cr. Fp > Hado FADC > Full Ultra (I call that one, the E.L.E.)
I think it’s a must know, b/c we only resort to zoning after we hit with follow up palm and it’s a damage opportunity. You can easly win a game off of this. Works the same way with Kongo, but if you FADC out of kongo, you can reset, hard knock down, special, super, and ultra. You can only Ultra after palm FADC. it’s 350 plus damage and can win you the match easily. The good thing is the Ultra is a hard knock down so you go back to the fb pin down or Vortex.
Ahhh yessss. I can see it now.
That’s the point of a hit confirm, confirm it hits and then proceed with the rest of the combo. If it doesn’t, don’t FADC or carry on the combo.
I’m familiar as to what hit confirm is, I also pointed that option out on my first reply.
But this is what I been stressing and can’t stress enough, corner pressure and trash is the one area gouken excels at and recommend anyone and everyone looking to use gouken to his full potential to implement a good corner game. His options are phenomenal even against teleporters gouken still has the edge in the corner game.
Gouken is the type of character where you learn more about him on the back end, and hands down he has the highest risk/reward than any character on the game. With that being said, no 2 Goukens are alike and certain tactics won’t be ideal for everyone to use. And the Option Select Palm or FB can destroy teleporters.
I began messing with that same Hado FADC stuff recently, and as stated the stun potential is very tempting, but the risk is huge, for me. I keep catching the negative edge off of my sFP and throwing a high hado.
big trouble.
Think Imma go back to taking my palms, and if its blocked I’ll burn my meter to GTFO.
Also didnt no I could palm FADC ultra in corner, cant wait to try it out.
Another note (and this has probably already been discussed) but if you land a FA as an AA midscreen, you can dash in for a full ultra.
ear to the ground
There’s mo risk in doing cr.fierce xx jab fireball at all. It’s a true blockstring that leaves you at advantage. It gives you long enough to hit confirm into FADC combos.
He’s saying it’s risky for him b/c he has trouble with the high hado coming out, not that the move is a risk itself.
Mr. Nannie to solve this problem, I tap instead of hold hp now to make sure the hp doesn’t come out., but I’m pretty sure you know this. If you are not careful you can get cr. mp instea$d of cr. fp during j. hp > cr. fp > EX Palm as well. I see that shit happen often enough, lol.
I wasn’t aware of using FA as a AA > Full Ultra. . . now I gotta try that.
There is very minimal risk besides the waste of 2 bars, but gouken builds meter fast. If they block the fireball skip the fadc and just link sweep or cr.mp xx lk df flip. Or burn the meter and try back throw or string cancels into flip or fb. Mr Nannie this basic fb combo whether it comes off of demon flip or jumping fierce or Eve cross up j.mk >> cr.hp xx lp hado is actually I good block string IMO. From mid screen I think if the hado hits as a counter u can follow up with s.hk.
As for aa fa very situational provided u can actually time the fa to hit as anti air I would rather follow it with lp palm for corner games and save the ultra unless it would net me a win. I would also recommended trying to score a reset after dash like aa fa dash cr.mk xx df throw.
Yeah it came out in some Gouken mirror matches between a freind and I. I dont know how situational it is, but It can definetly happen.
thanks for the tip as well, I just need more practice to get over those little execution problems.
and thanks for the Mix-up tips ORION
If I see you do that as anti - air in a mirror you know I’m gonna ejump into cr.jabbbbbbb string…or cr.sk-tatsu.
Takinflight is right though at higher level play u throw out a focus while someone is jumping more than likely your gonna get tossed. Use it sparingly. If you try focusing a dive kick your a brave one I wait for that after training with the df dive kick and than mix it up with a df throw.
Edit: don’t just thank me but most of the mix up options is from trial and error from everyone in here. I read posts and watched vids, and fighting other goukens I’ve tried to incorporate what works and go over scenarios in my head to better the situations, though implementing in my game is harder than in my head heh.
I’m not able to get the palm FADC ultra in the corner. I tried it against abel, dhalsim and ryu, but I couldn’t link it. I’m not so concerned with the practicality of this move just the execution.
Do I have to catch them in the air with a fb then palm FADC ultra? Or can I straight palm fadc ultra in the corner?
Any tips IAMTHATIAM
Orion: I dont know how you infered that I was somehow unaware of the danger of being thrown after a focus attempt, but thanks anyway bud
PALM -> Ultra doesn’t work well.
You need to do EX PALM instead, that will link.
Definitely got interested in this after reading some of the replies and thinking about it.
I’ll preface the rest of this post by saying that I hate FADCing. It’s definitely the weakest part of my game, I’ve used it for escapes and braindead combos into Ultra, but the first is entirely defensive, and the second is, well, pretty damn easy as far as FADC use goes. Even then, I’d much rather use my EX meter for EX moves, and considering how easy Ultra is anywhere near a corner and on backthrow, so I tend to FADC very rarely.
Anyway, the reason this got stuck in my head is I wanted to figure out what kind of stun and damage this could do, and when and if it was ever more practical than the alternatives I currently use. What I found was pretty surprising to me.
First, I started with the obvious combo, wondering how much damage this could do on in the most obvious example that came to mind that would work with just 3 bars, so I assumed a DF kick into cr.HP in the corner, that would give DF kick > cr.HP > lp hado xx FADC > cr.HP > EX palm > hp hado > lp hado > cr.hp, which should be 760 stun and 495 damage. (Note: You can sweep for the hard knockdown, doing the same damage and 730 stun)
(Stun: (Scaled calculations are in brackets) 100 + 200 + 80 [100*.8] + 140 [200*.7] + 90 [150*.6] + 50 [100*.5] + 40 [100*.4] + 60 [200*.3] Damage: 80 + 100 + 56 [70*.8] + 70 [100*.7] + 96 [160*.6] + 35 [70*.5] + 28 [70*.4] + 30 [100*.3])
That’s not bad, but the difficulty in pulling that FADC portion off would make me hesitant to consider trying to master it. I decided to pull up training mode to see the numbers on what I’ve done in matches with 3 bars of EX in the same situation:
DF kick > cr.HP > EX palm > hp hado > EX hado > EX tatsu
Now, I don’t normally do tatsu after EX palm, and I don’t ever do tatsu in the corner unless I’m being showy in a KO or I really think that extra bit of damage is going to KO them…but I do like using EX tatsu on a corner juggle, especially if I’m just trying to maximize damage. I can’t be sure, but I think the way they fly up on the last kick means you have more time to recover with EX than HK, and the ability to hp hado > lp hado > EX tatsu into all the hits +95% of the time is nice. (Not sure why they very rarely fly across the screen missing the final hit?)
Anyway, the stun/damage on DF kick > cr.HP > EX palm > hp hado > EX hado > EX tatsu is 710 stun and 540 damage
(Stun: (Scaled calculations are in brackets) 100 + 200 + 120[150*.8] + 70 [100*.7] + 120 [200*.6] + 100 [200*.5] Damage: 80 + 100 + 128 [160*.8] + 49 [70*.7] + 84 [140*.6] + 100 [200*.5]. According to damage scaling, the math says it SHOULD be 541 damage, it’s 540 when you turn on attack data in training mode, so I put 540.)
So basically, unless I’m fighting Seth (where the FADC combo stuns), there’s no overwhelming benefit to the FADC as a combo from a confirmed DF kick attack, at least for me. The additional 50/20 stun (but 45 less damage) isn’t worth me spazzing out and wasting meter and a punish opportunity because I don’t see that combo being consistant for me. Either way, they’re in the corner, and you’re one hado > palm/hado > DF sweep combo away from stun on most of the cast.
It should be noted that if you are using a jump-in hp/hk instead DF kick, you’d be doing an extra 100 stun in either combo, and a counter hit j.hp/j.hk would make that an extra 150…so theoretically, you could stun Akuma, Dhalsim, Gen, Guile, or Claw off of the FADC version, while you could stun Akuma without it the FADC.
(I should take a moment to say that I can time combos pretty tight when I know they’re coming. I like the one-hit j.mp into EX tatsu off a backthrow and multiple fireballs into EX tatsu/cr.hp/cr/hk because the EX palm strike and backthrow are so predictable that once the EX palm starts to hit or backthrow starts to throw, the timing part isn’t that tough. I don’t see me having the same success with a FA/DF kick/jump-in attack and constantly FADCing a lp hado.)
This is where things got interesting for me. It IS a lot of meter to be using, but I can see why someone who has no problems executing lp hado xx FADC > cr.hp into the rest of their combo consistantly would be interested in this, but I still agreed with Twin Rhapsody that the lp hado into sweep seems like a safer move.
Except… I found out that you can definitely lp hado xx FADC > cr.HP > EX palm > corner combo from distances where you cannot lp hado > cr.HK.
There’s a few things iamthatiam said that I wanted to reply to, so lemme paste all that before continuing:
I didn’t think normal palm into Ultra was possible, so I tried it out, repeatedly, in training mode. I couldn’t get the 3-hit, but I could palm into ultra after multiple tries. That said, considering just how far away from the corner you can EX palm > lp hado > Ultra for the 3-hit, and how very, very difficult the palm FADC Ultra was, I don’t plan on using this at the moment either. (My hat’s off to anyone who can consistantly use (normal) palm FADC Ultra to win games.)
Now, the other reason that I posted all of what iamthatiam wrote was because he mentioned the “meaty fireball and palm fadc frame trap”…I don’t know if there’s any way a lp hado FADC would give you the ability to hit confirm into cr.hp or give you any sort of advantage on block (as in the scenario iamthatiam describes), but considering you can lp hado into FADC cr.hp from distances you can’t sweep from, I’m sure there are at least some good high risk high reward uses for the FADC.
That said, this is an awful lot of text from someone who doesn’t see themselves ever being good enough at FADCs to use them in offensive situations. (or at least combos)
If anyone is up to the challenge, I would love to see a video of someone landing:
j.HP > cr.HP > lp hado xx FADC > cr.HP > EX palm > hp hado > EX hado > cr.hp
If I understand correctly, that should be 900 stun without even needing a counter hit, and I’d like to see if it actually stuns Gen or Guile in one combo… With counter hit on, I believe it would be 950, which would actually stun Rufus? (Should anyone take up this video challenge…have attack data on, please!:bgrin:)
(TL:DR summary: I like Gouken. Comboing with FADCs is hard.)