Backthrow -> Denjin got nerfed less than backthrow -> Shin Sho because you can do 2 hit j.mp -> Denjin.
unless denjin or j.mp has some sort of damage buff, 2 hit j.mp to denjin is going to have 4 scaling agents instead of three and isnt as good as 5 hit denjin after backthrow anyway, which will now have 3 scaling agents instead of 2.
backthrow nerf was a nerf to everything except raw hk. tatsu.
j.mp is considered one hit for scaling purposes…
backthrow = 1, j.mp = 1, denjin = 2
backthrow -> 2 hit j.mp -> denjin, the denjin hits 70% and j.mp hits 100%. In Super backthrow -> 5 hit denjin is comparable because the denjin gets no scaling but j.mp adds it.
So now backthrow -> j.mp x2 -> denjin, the only thing that got scaled is the Denjin, by 10%. In backthrow -> U1, the ultra got scaled by 20%.
Super:
Backthrow -> U1: 503
Backthrow -> j.mp -> (80%)U2: 284
Backthrow -> 5 hit U2: 315
Backthrow -> EX Palm -> (80%) Denjin: 350
AE:
Backthrow -> (80%)U1: 403
Backthrow -> j.mp -> (70%)U2: 259
Backthrow -> (80%) 5 hit U2: 252
Backthrow -> EX Palm -> (70%) Denjin: 329
But then people have been saying backthrow actually does do grey damage so the numbers in AE are probably +5 damage or something. This is assuming of course that #1 - backthrow -> j.mp/EX Palm is possible in AE, which I haven’t seen yet, and #2 - that j.mp/EX Palm/Denjin/Shin Sho have the same damage numbers as super.
Also without full ultra then these numbers will be a lot more weighted towards the j.mp -> ultra than the raw ultra.
Sorry I misunderstood what you guys were talking about, didn’t realize you meant BT to j.mp
i see now, thanks.
ugh, seeing the numbers like this pisses me off even more.
what the fuck was the point of nerfing the best thing about one of the worst characters.
so frustrating.
hey so off back throw doing hado->super wont be as damaging as raw super anymore will it? i always loved the way that looked =(
hado super will be 20 damage more
i bet lp palm super will work well too - glad to see that.
/didn’tdoanymath
lol
If they didn’t give Gouken 3 frame normals that could into HP that lead into an EX pain train or LP palm, he’s not moving up significantly on any tier list. Gouken will have a BIT better time against super fast chars (Cammy), but he will still lose against characters that have solid pokes (Yun/Yang will hurt the old man bad).
Bac throw> jmp> lpalm werx brilliantly…however I don’t see expalm at the end of that being able to happen.
I seen some videos of Gouken hitting j.mp (both hits) then j.hk for a knock down. Is it possible to hit the ground tatsu after both hits of j.mp?
The new j. hk has a pursuit property, I’m assuming that’s the reason why you can take advantage of the juggle state much like U1 and U2.
Currently the 2nd hit’s of tatsu also have this property if you can use it quick enough you can j. mp > juggle with follow up hits of lk tatsu but they will have to be pretty high up so you can get the tatsu started with the SLOW… 7 frame start up 
on an unrelated quote, god bless counter-option select low parry.
What is this you speak of and how is it performed? How do you OS the low parry?
BTW, you compete in Nemesis 2?
Im guessing it works just like the crouch tech technique. When an opponent is doing a block string on you if they mess up the block string a kongo will come out and the active frame of kongo is 14 frames so if they attack u again they will activate the kongo.
If they keep doing a block string you will keep blocking and kongo will not come out.
Now if im wrong and there is more to it people correct me asap. Or is this OS comming from a jump in off an untech knockdown. I just confused myself now lol
nope, this is just about doing a block string and stopping it and doing a low kongo.
If the guy is mashing the option select he will get hit by the kongo, and you’ll have time to fadc into ultra if they are in the corner or super mid screen.
You guys don’t do that already? It’s the best troll in the game.
I do this a lot with EX counter as an attempt to escape pressure (obviously). But, when I play offline, especially in casual matches with smaller groups of people where it’s quieter, most players listen to my buttons and will purposely stop mid-blockstring to make me whiff.
It can get pretty frustrating.