if you go for (lk. tatsu > fadc > ultra) as anti air and your lk. tatsu trades, you get ultra.
its really good.
the only thing that kept it from being prevalent before is tatsu’s backseat to low counter.
lk. tatsu trades also give you hk. tatsu.
No disrespect to Phunkism as that combo is very nice.
You can still just walk up or jump in and cr. lp, cr. lp > and look for the palm along the way. I just don’t understand why anyone would leave that on the table, it would work wonders in the Balrog and Dudley match ups.
One of the biggest weakness of Gouken is that he have absolutely no usable link. s.mp -> c.mk is 1 frame, and can not combo into anything reliably.
Right now, the worst Gouken can do now to punish 4 frame opening is jab jab jab c.lk and maybe a chip damage fb. Which does next to no damage and does nothing to deters people from trying again. Their risk against being punished is very low.
However, If Gouken can combo after jab with palm, he pretty much go up one tier immediately, because people will actually be afraid to throw random stuff that can only be punished by a 4 frame jab. They will eat jab + palm and get untechable knock down plus possibly FADC near corner into Super. Now, that is scary.
So I was thinking about this LP palm situation a bit more and I’m starting to fall in love with it now that I think about it. Sure, the LP hadou safe palm is gone, but when you think about it logically, we’ll lose one safe palm for a better one. Think about it, LP palm doesn’t move and now it links from a jab, which means you could do something like cr.LPx4 > LP palm and because it doesn’t move you’re at the max distance making it completely safe. Gouken will finally have a solid block string. And since it’s faster it’ll be better at punishing FA’s maybe even on wakeup. I curious to see what they do with invuln with it, because that could be a complete game changer.
Also I forgot to mention someone earlier was talking about doing the “Balrog Shuffle” to net an ultra midscreen, and maybe it won’t be as easy as that, but if I recall Palm FADC Denjin works midscreen, right? Well something like that can be pretty big if they keep it. It’s almost an indirect buff to the Denjin.
after a regular palm no you cant hit a denjin even if you fadc it if they are outside of the corner…
I hope counter isn’t high/mid/low… that would be a definite nerf right there.
Or even high/specials/low… ouch.
I think it’s doubtful. The loc test reports indicated that lp was for low and mp was for high, with hp properties unknown. If it was going to be a low/mid/high setup, then mp would be mid counter and hp would be for high counter.
I am really curious to know the new properties of hp kongo. I just hope it is something useful.
i hope it opens a parry state where sortof like dbl kongo they can keep attacking and we can keep parrying with a small frame adavntage< free to counter attack at will , with proper timing.
Since he has three different strengths for his counter now does that mean he can for example “Akuma light red fireball(3 hits)” high parry the first hit, low parry the second hit, and then (whatever the fierce parry does) the third hit?
Sorry, if you can’t understand what i mean… im tired.
we should be able to kongo from fadc therefore absorbing all 3 with dbl kongo.
IMO
kongo lp = low
kongo mp = high
kongo hp = high more damage
Ex kongo = high n low(parry to a SRK that u can juggle from)
What would be the purpose of having two high counters but one does more damage than the other? There would be no reason to use MP Kongo if HP did the same thing but better.
EDIT:
I just thought of something. HP Shares the same animation as EX, so here’s what I think it does: Like EX it counters both high and low at the same reduced damage that EX does, but instead of taking grey damage you take the damage of the attack like Dudley’s Cross Counter. You don’t have to guess and you don’t have to waste meter, but you take the damage on whatever the attack was you got hit with. I think that’s fair.
I would like it if the HP kongo counters throws in this way:
The HP kongo shoves them back like you teched the throw but gouken doesn’t do the “bounce back” thus you get a window (brief to be fair) to punish.
I would love it to affect both command grabs and throws but would take just throws.
I believe that is within the scope of the kongo and possible in the game engine.
What do you think?
I would like the fierce counter to be like a feint of some sort giving you enough time to throw your opponent or something like that.
it would make him too powerful…people would bitch til kingdom come
Yeah they would but if they only made it for normal grabs and not command grabs then I can’t really see why. A shory-derp is still more powerful as you don’t need to guess like with the kongo.
It has always seemed a little odd to me that Gouken can counter super powerful attacks…but not a measly hip toss.
But I guess we will know when we get someone from the board to test it…just like SSF4.
I hope hp kongo is a feint, even more now that you could punish so much stuff with lp lp palm if that’s true. If it’s a throw counter it would mean that ex kongo would counter just everything? :rock:
However I’m afraid we’re going to see damage nerfs with Gouken, and I wonder if tatsu trades will stay as they’re right now, it’s just too good to be true.
In any case, I’m all in for a more balanced Gouken with more tools even if I lose some damage. Also I hope they give Denjin more damage, right now it’s just not worth wasting an ultra for maybe 100 more damage than your average combo.
Were kinda closer now than in vanilla, as sometimes a kongo from a step and a half away or so, can be used as a ghetto version of this
i think denjin would be great if they sped up its activation and travel speed so you could get it mid screen after hp. fireballs and (kongo > fadc).
speeding up activation would give you more opportunities to get the 5 hit as well.
the 5 hit is a monster, 500 stun is no joke.
also, stop making it pause when it hits other fireballs.
wtf kind of idea was that?
we have an ultra fireball that isn’t allowed to blow through other fireballs!
There are 3 problems that gouken has. His Denjin, his tatsu, and the kongo input
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The one reason i didn’t use his U2 is because a non-charged denjin is useless, especially with the way i play. The best way to make that ultra better is to, like Raunwynn said, to speed-up the charge, but it should take just as long to reach the max charge like it did in SSF4.
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His Ex-tatsu should suck-in the opponent on the first hit and then continue with the rest of the hits. It’s not fun to spend an ex bar on someone who jumps in on you just so you can hit them once. That was one of the two most annoying things about him.
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It’s about time capcom fixed his kongo input problems because random tatsu’s are not fun.
Those the only things that really need to be fixed.