i was pissed off when i read about the changes.
the only one that is really clear is that backthrow now scales.
i know exactly what that means.
400 instead of 500.
i don’t really know what any of the other changes mean.
the mp kongo could be a buff, like if it covers chun li’s hazan shou and her c.hk.
improved normals could be good, like if they allow gouken to keep up some decent pressure.
if gouken can keep pressure on his opponent, denjin will be a lot better.
canceling into lp. palm from jabs is cool and all, but if it isn’t a hit confirm, do we still end up with a punishable blocked palm?
i like that they have decreased the recover on df parry, but its usefulness will depend on how much.
in my opinion, the most significant nerf gouken received from vanilla to super was the increased delay on df throw.
i don’t know, everyone else seems pretty excited, so maybe i’m just a grump right now.
i think i have a cold.
Nah I’m up there with you. I got the early excitement jitters after reading that Capcom said they improved his normal but I still hold this to a big degree if skepticism.
If low punch palm is hit confirmable now because of its changes, cool. But think about what you might lose there when you take away its old properties.
I know now in super that it doesn’t matter how far away I am forth most part; if I can confirm a crouch fierce punch, then I can get a low palm.
If palm doesn’t move anymore, how do I know how reliable it’ll be from a crouch fierce?
^ The active frames of palm are extended to the tip of his hand. If the move operates the same way then, it should still hit. We are going to lose a couple of lp palm frame trap set ups and all, and I’m quite unsure of what’s going to happen with kongo FADC > palm. Right now we use lp palm after Kongo FADC, not unless Crapcom changed a few things altering how the opponent flies away then we may lose that ability all together, or you’ll just see Kongo FADC > st. hk all the time.
If palm isn’t hit confirmable then we will still be in the same situation we are now, except you can get palm from cl. st. mp > lp > lp palm instead of whiffing tatsu. With the buffs on the normals, that link should be easier to connect.
I’m still concerned with, what did the do to/with the invincibility frames in lp palm.
yeah, there is a lot we don’t know.
ranges, travel times, recovery periods, all that stuff makes a lot bigger difference than the concepts outlined in their information release.
i doubt that lp. palm will be changed into a reversal though.
it would be like a dp that was -6 on block.
I have a question to the translator - Street11, regarding the Neutral Jump HP & Diagonal Jump HK.
You translation is this:
“Also, neutral jump HP and diagonal jump HK have pursuit properties, and will slam opponents into the ground.”
I reread the sentence at Capcom blog, my personal view is due to the fact these 2 hits has new “Aerial Pursuit” ability, thus you can follow up with a throw. Your translation is this 2 hits will just slam the opponent when connect…
I believe there are 2 different things…
Can u pls read the sentence again and let me know your view:
???
???
I agree, To those that kept Gouken as their main and had the bravery to take him to tournaments, filled with RYU, ROfus, Bisons, (and the occassional sagat) a toast to you all!!!
Or, Kongo FADC > Cr.fierce > flip shenanigans 
Overall, the changes feels nice. Going to be interesting to see how theory applies to the finished product though.
I can read some Japanese so I will try re-translates anything you guys don’t quite understand.
“???
???”
??? basically means “In additional,” so there isn’t much to say.
??? basically means neutral jump strong punch.
??? means diagonal jump strong kick.
??? is probably the part where translator will give you the most problem. “??” actually means “additional attack”. So from what I understand, this mean Neutral jump strong punch and diagonal strong kick now put enemies into a jugglable state. It does not says which juggles states it is. For example, Gouken fireball have the best juggle state, it can be juggled by anything that hits. While something else, say the second hit of his diagonal jump mp, it can only juggles by super or ultra.
The entire phase means “Possible to apply close up additional attack in the air” which is actually fairly confusing, as SSF4 does not have a juggle state where air attack and ground attack is different. It might means that there is other air attack that can continues the juggle. Or it simply means that they can be juggled while they are in the air. Either meaning is possible in this translation, but the later seem much more likely.
???Basically means that it will cause knock down, and ?? imply that “Decision is made” which probably mean it can not be escaped. To me it means untechable.
Does anyone else have any questions?
^ yall better stop toying with my emotions.
We already have the cl.MP buff of the gods, everything else is gravy 
If all his normals got better, I simply have to wonder if he’ll be able to link into c.HK (like nearly every other shoto). With several ways to hard knock down AND the DF parry having less recovery, just scoring a knock down could lead to a seriously powerful mixup game like Akuma.
If he has more untechs, then Capcom you have answered all of my prayers.
And there will be a lot more Gouken users out there. However, I’m not sure if this is actually a good or bad thing.
Agreed, I said this last night. But, at the same time, new Gouken users will have to incorporate EVERYTHING we’ve learned about Gouken to date, plus the newer combos that he’ll have.
Regardless of the changes he’s getting, Gouken is an extremely complex character that just got more complex. We’ve been using him since day one. We know the ins and outs of his normals, specials, and ultras. We understand the finer details about his game.
While you’re correct and the thought of Gouken becoming a mainstream choice does scare me a little bit, at the same time we’re leagues ahead of anyone who decides to pick him up post Arcade Edition release.
We’ll just have to do our best to learn and incorporate the changes into our gameplay and weed out the scrubs.
:nunchuck:What if they come to the dojo to learn?
Shall we not teach them through pain and punishment??
:china:
What a trade, a damage nerf from the back throw to u1, to all the crazy options? Man I couldnt be happier unless AE was out now. Too bad about his untouched u2 and we didnt see the return of the overhead GF kick. Been playing with u2 the last few days, and its got me thinking of 3s ryu. Those links with s.mp>c.mp>tatsu and all sorts of combos is gonna be great. I wonder how the GF is gonna be now with the air parry buff. More shenanigans I guess.
As for the Gouken Bandwagon, forget about it. Its Goukens time to shine, and just like Ryu, Ken and Sagat in Vanilla, Guile, Rose and Adon in Super, its gonna be Gouken in AE. Doesnt mean theyre gonna be skilled, just means were gonna see more.
To all the Goukens who have been Goukens since vanilla, our patience has paid off. The Ansatsuken Master has come back to life.
So whens the new Dojo sessions? iamthatiam, Im going to add you on xbl
Gouken’s not going to become a mainstream choice. Not unless he is absolutely a top 8 character.
Either way, these changes absolutely made my night last night.
Can I join in with you guys on these sessions? Do you guys do Gouken Mirror matches and just train up and share/teach/learn/etc?
I would really love to do that. It would be a great way to compare and contrast how a lot of us play as Gouken, and to help level up. :tup:
If he’s given hit confirms and more ways to untech including linking to cr. roundhouse. He’ll be a top 8 character.
I can’t see anything else holding him back, especially with no more over lap with kongo and tatsu.
The only characters you don’t wont to jump in on after un-teching them is Zangief and T-Hawk. But having hit confirm is going to help with that situation. Unless Gief has meter or something or they both have Ultra’s or something.
He’s airborne after his back dash you you won’t eat full combo’s for trying to get the hell away on wake up (save supers, ultras). Only those with a fast cr. roundhouse would you have to really fear, but it only leads you to a knock down vs. eating a full combo. I’ll take that, there’s always EX GF or wake up lp palm > fadc to saftey now, if they safe jumped. We still don’t know where the invincibility frames of lp palm, in fact we don’t know any of the details… lp palm may be a good wake up tool. Who knows.
If not top 8, he’ll be close.
I’m one of the few that have been maining gouken since I unlocked him back in vanilla. I’d honestly be a little disappointed if I saw a crapload of people maining him >_> Now I’m kinda scared he’ll end up like Ryu or something…I’ll pray it doesn’t.
In other news, I’d like to compare my gouken game to others on here! I’m talkin to Iam about letting me host a few sessions.
Sundays will most def. be mostly Gouken vs. Gouken. I’m sure you’ll have a mix of other characters but it will be more so an “us vs. them thing”.
During the week, there isn’t anything solid yet, but I’d def. would say everyone invite a certain character type, that’s on your friends list to see if they can get in.
But, the format doesn’t really matter. If we can have mini sessions to cover match ups, that’s an entirely different ball game.
As long as we have Gouken’s who wanna play, we can have matches.
I’d like to see some one host “Thursday” and maybe even “Saturday” battle sessions. I can pretty much join to play those days, but married life prevents me from hosting everyday! :woot:… 