It said close MK, so the knee.
I always believe the new/instant light palm can be a good wake up tool… Now it is just too slow…
Just palm the shit out of whoever that get close or piling on the pressure…
Also u have kongoshin, tatsu, EX Demon Flip…
^ The real question is, where does the invincibility frames begin on the new lp palm? I hope they are in the front.
Yeah, also will the lp palm auto correct when the opponent cross him up? Just like ryu’s shoryuken
On the other note, I remember someone jump over my fireball, i used palm to hit down the air attack… So i believe it shd function like SRK. The main problem now is the start up frame… New updates shd solve this…
Auto correcting has to do with inputs, you could spam 3131 constantly and you would get DP.
I was pleasantly surprised at changes that Gouken got. I would have liked for him to gotten slightly less awkward normals or for their to be a buff to Denjin Hadouken, but I guess it’s just something I’ll have to get used to if I decide to stick with Gouken. Still, he got off a lot better than most other characters so far; he probably got the best (obvious) treatment of any character so far, actually. Then again, I haven’t been exactly been keeping up with the changes due to all the whining for almost every character.
Speaking of which, though it’s pretty minimal here, I’m not really see why people are saying that Kongoshin got nerfed. If anything, it goes implicitly buffed because K Kongoshin no longer exists, meaning that you don’t exactly do a counter when you’re trying to kick people in the face with Tatsumaki. That itself is a vast improvement.
Haha. It probably won’t, at least any time soon. I’d give about three months at least for it make it consoles at the earliest.
After all, it would eat into their arcade sales and it would probably take forever to download while at the same time being something Capcom knows people would be pissed at having to buy yet another disc for.
If there’s invincibility on frame 1 of the lp palm, I’m callling it right now. Gouken will be a top tier character. Having a good wakeup defense is one of the last big issues that I always wanted fixed. They’ve already fixed the problem with him not being able to easily hit-confirm to complete a combo(close mp > c.jab > lp palm). These changes sound great for Gouken. I’ve always like Gouken, but always thought there were just a few things missing on him. Now I’ll be able to have a good secondary character.
I’m curious if they’re going to give his crappy air tatsu instant recovery or less recovery when he touches the ground.
Get ready for the Gouken train…all aboard.
Assuming that’s the closeup knee kick, what’s the benefit of this? Walk up frame trap? That normal had really short range.
By splitting a mid-and-above counter into separate mid and high, isn’t this a major nerf? I wonder how they separate medium and high attacks. Some attacks from air can be blocked low, and what about overheads etc.
OMG OMG OMG This is why I hate working my hours. I missed so much. This is just too much WAY TOO MUCH. Im going to start out by saying this. Ive been playing gouken since vanilla back when he had his overhead dive kick lol and been enjoying him ever since. If these changes make him top tier or whatever Know ive been there from the beginning heh.
Anyway i dont know where to start. ok I hope NJ HP does not knock them to the ground if they are standing on the ground. I hope it only does it if they are in the air. Now forward Jump RH sounds awesome!
Now at work I was thinking that a hitconfirm for gouken would be Lp LP LK lpalm Dont know if that would work though. Now i reading about all these potential 2 frame links and stuff and my mind is just blown right now at the potential new stuff i will be able to do with gouken,
Im just not going to say anything anymore. Im just going to wait till they release it on consoles then thats when the experiments should start. This is jsut too much lol. We all know they will being these changes to consoles its just a matter of when.
Yea we just need to wait till we can get our hands on these changes im done.
I wonder what LP Palm’s start-up is. Jab’s hitstun is 13f, so it has to be 13f or faster, and blockstun is 10f, so if they made it between 11f and 13f a simple jab xx LP Palm would hit opponents who don’t hold down-back… No Capcom wouldn’t do that. So I believe it’ll be somewhere between 5f and 10f (guessing 8f, going to bet 10 dollars).
Maybe it’ll have lower body invincibility and throw invincibility (seeing how tatsu has upper body strike invincibility), but I honestly doubt they’ll give him full invincibility for the palm. (armour breaking, safer-than-SRK-on-block&whiff, FADC-able, invincible, less-than-11f start-up special with no meter? It sounds marvelous on paper, so he won’t have one.)
I hope they didn’t screw EX Tatsu up. Gouken shouldn’t get hit out in the middle by an air hadouken after AAing Akuma (which, if happened, would result in an odd glitch like the old one with Seth).
I feel that AE changes won’t come out as DLC, at least until the last costume pack is released (which should be April 26 or so). By that time I’ll probably be playing MvC3 more often.
Yeah, I’d still say not to hold your breath for AE coming to consoles any time soon unless you want to suffocate. You’re only going to disappoint yourself.
Walk up frame trap and generally just being harder to out-poke up close, especially since you combo specials off of that normal.
It’s not a major nerf, especially since you shouldn’t have been throwing it out willy-nilly unless you wanted to die anyway.
I’m among the people who don’t understand why this is seemingly so difficult to comprehend, but let’s try to explain it yet again:
[list=1]
[]RDP+LP = Counters low attacks now, obviating the need for RDP+K to exist, which means that RDP+K doesn’t take up space anymore; as aforementioned, that itself is an implicit buff because you won’t accidentally get it when trying to Tatsumaki and vice-versa. Low attacks are all the attacks have to crouch block to block or they would otherwise hit you. This includes things like most characters’ crouching kicks, pretty much all command slides (including the special versions of Guy’s and El Fuerte’s here), Honda’s standing (far) Roundhouse, Balrog’s/Boxer’s Dash Low Straight and Cammy’s Spiral Arrow and Hooligan Combination: Razor’s Edge Slicer as well the similar slide kicks that both Akuma/Gouki and Gouken have off of their Demon Flips. Pretty much every other low-hitting special breaks armor, so LP Kongoshin shouldn’t exactly be what you go to against special moves.
[]RDP+MP = Now catches only mid-attacks, meaning that it catches things you can block both high and low, but not things you can block only low (i.e. the aforementioned things) or only high (i.e. all normal jumping attacks and all overheads). By default, this means it catches the most of anything now, including pretty much all the non-armor-breaking specials, supers and ultras that don’t hit low and aren’t overheads. Those “jumping” attacks you can block standing are here because all aerial special moves can be blocked crouching as far as I’m aware; just don’t try to counter Juri’s or T.Hawk’s aerial specials and you should be fine.
[*]RDP+HP = Now catches only high-attacks, meaning that it catches only jumping (normal) attacks and overhead attacks.
[/list]
That’s about the gist of it as far as I understand. I’m not saying they’re can’t be exceptions, though–hell, they could make it so his high counter attacks like Geese’s from CvS2 where it caught ALL non-grabbing physical special attacks (and supers) regardless of where they hit. (I always laughed at being able to high counter Spiral Arrow in that game.)
If people still don’t get that explanation, then just make sure you always have meter for EX Kongoshin if you want to counter everything so badly and so easily.
Most of this changes are amazing! They’re almost too much
I don’t care much about kongo nerf, I’ll be using tatsu as AA, and better backdash with lp palm reversal hoping to be good will be much better wakeup tools, together with improved ex tatsu as panic move, I won’t use kongo that much but in very specific situations.
Now DF focus and tatsu will mean we’re going to score a LOT more U1, and faster DF FA together with so many hit confirms, Gouken DF is going to inspire fear.
Also now we can j.mk, s.mp, cr.mp, hk tatsu, which has enough time to hit confirm if crouched and should give a ton of damage.
I don’t think DLC will take too long, Capcom will not want to split their community in two, and DLC can be distributed fast, besides many people including me won’t be playing a lot vanilla SSF4 now.
The bad:
No love for denjin? there was so many things they could have done to improve it, a pity.
the wtf?:
Maybe ex tatsu lock means it hits crouched? I can dream :shy:
Th question:
Now that tatsu fadc ultra will be bnb, what’s the better way to pull it off. I’ve tried FA:qcf::qcf::3p: , but it doesn’t work well.
new translation at Super Street Fighter 4 |OT2| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT! - Page 352 - NeoGAF
GOUKEN
Normals
-Normals as a whole have been buffed
-cl.MP, cl.HK have greater frame advantage
-cl.MK startup is now 3F (formerly 5 frames)
-Neutral jump HP and diagonal jump HK now knockdown against air opponents (pursuit property)
-No changes to the reach of his normals
-Damage from his back throw is now recoverable (white/grey damage)
WTF???
Specials
-LP Palm has been significantly altered, can now be comboed from light normals
-EX Tatsu now locks the opponent in
-Demon Flip > Punch (air counter) landing recovery has been drastically reduced
-Counter is now done entirely with punch
-LP Counter covers the lower body, MP mid-body, and HP upper body
Other
-Is considered to be airborne immediately after the invincibility frames of his backdash end
My thoughts:
with so many buffs with the rest of his game, while so many characters are being nerfed, it would be plausible for Capcom to do that to balance him, and that would mean that now Denjin may be used a lot more.
What the capcom blog is saying is that Gouken back throw now added in the grey damage. And damages of combo from the back throw are now reduce.
My understanding is when Gouken throw any monkey upward and do nothing, it will incur grey damage to the monkey. Instead of zero damage… Nothing to do with the combo damages after the back throw
So if there’s no followup, the victim of backthrow will have a grey bar like they just focused-absorbed an attack? I wonder if there is any mindgame potential if you let them fall.
Ultra will likely scale to 80% after backthrow. It also affects my favorite backthrow->j.mp->mk tatsu. It would be better to just HK tatsu instead. Minor loss, I’m not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth 
So, theoretically, this means now we can link crouching jab to standing close forward, 1 frame link, link means we can do specials, which means 1-frame hitconfirm combos into big damage? sweet. 
well if after 2 cLP needed to hitconfirm, the MK is still considered “close”, then yes
you can also hit confirm after a single cLP, but its way more difficult
Only when pointblank,btw we got a much better hit confirm off of close MP, the previous 1 framers are now 2 and we got a boatload of new 1 framers.(I look forward to getting to test how many people “cl.MP, cl.MP, c.MP XX whatever special reaches” works on.
Btw everyone worrying about bandwagoners? Honestly who cares? Goukens time in the sun is coming and it is good Also bandwagoners will not be staying long as Goukens easy stuff is nerfed and his buffs are not gonna be easy. I for one welcome every new Gouken and will be giving a friendly wave to all that leave after realising how not easy to play he is.
Yeah, he is not easy but i would say he is most fun to play with… Even in his crappy state now…
We Gouken players suffer together for such a long time, now i just feel like Gouken is back from death… Applaud ourself for sticking with him for so long, thanks to Capcom for finally putting in some efforts for the Master of their favourite son…
Lets’ hope this is true, b/c if the opponent can recover damage after back throw that would be some major bs.