^ He’s saying that he gives up resets and all of the other bull shit that Gouken can do off the back throw instead of doing U1. I look at all of his options as a testament to his versatility instead of as some sort of weakness or handi-cap.
Hopefully once DLC launches, Gouken will be able to jab, jab > Ultra like everyone else then we can focus on ways to land it vs. debating the worth of U1.
I would like for Gouken to be able to chain and hit confirm from cr. Lk just like the rest of the cast, that would be a good way to land tatsu fadc as well. I think its only fair to give him a respectful high low mix up.
If they are going to fix him, just dont half way fix him. When they removed GF dive kick overhead properties his high low mix up was taken with it.
That still doesn’t make any sense to me at all. If you want to do a reset then do a god damn reset, the ultra is there for damage. Even that is a silly argument because Gouken has GF mixup after he lands the full ultra.
And they’ve pretty much already confirmed Gouken can land ultra from jab now, seeing as how jab > jab > LP palm was confirmed, which means free Denjin in the corner. I would have liked to see Tatsu links instead of palm links, but hey, I’ll take any sort of links I can get. I think it’s Gouken’s biggest weakness to not be able to hit confirm damage from his light normals.
I agree, it is not a weakness whatsoever. However the character itself being versatility shouldn’t make his U1 being good. Those are independent quality.
Every untech-able knock down can do GF mixup, bringing those in is a bit odd. But hey, you know what. You think U1 is godlike? That’s cool. We don’t have to agree.
Back to topic, I would love it if this is actually confirmed. Now all I can hope for is that they don’t nerfs lp palm damage to hell or make it extremely unsafe on block or causes no knock down. We will see. I guess.
Gouken being able to hit confirm lp palm? Damn that’s borderline broken.
He’s a GREAT zoning character, and his palms put his opponent on the other side of the screen, which of course means he can go back to zoning, which puts him at the advantage in most matchups. Or for that matter getting people closer to the corner off a hitconfirm is very useful since of course he wrecks people who get cornered.
I like it too. After seeing what Balrog, Dudley, and the rest of the cast for that matter can do from a jab, jab hit confirm I don’t see how being able to hit confirm palm is close to being broken at all. I think the game is broken for him not having that ability as of right now, as well as not being able to chain his cr.lk it should be +5 on hit but id take +6.
I’m really, really loving the sounds of hitconfirm palm combos.
Looking at the numbers…c.LP x2 > LP palm is 136 damage, 260 stun. c.LP x3 ups things to 140 damage, 280 stun. Not to mention, you get a knockdown. Not very damaging, but it’s something and definitely a perk to be able to hitconfirm for a knockdown that:
Puts you far away for zoning purposes.
You can take advantage of for GF mixups.
Can be used in the corner for Ultra 2 combos.
Also, I did some math on the new LP palm startup. For it to connect from a c.LP, the startup has to be about 13 frames…so it’s quite a deal faster on startup.
They’d have to have like 3 less frames of recovery…which would mean they’d be +3/+6. I don’t think Capcom is willing to give him that solid of jabs…though you never know LOL.
If they do, though, OH GEEZ c.LP > c.HP LINKS ALL DAY!
I just think for Gouken, being able to hitconfirm a way to push someone into the corner or the other side is an especially good position for a character like him. Gouken has some of the best reward in the game for successful zoning or corner pressure. The way I see it, getting a safe way to put people in his best position is probably the one thing he really needed to unleash his true potential.
I kinda see Gouken as being able to accomplish something akin to what Sagat was able to do in vanilla SF4. Solid keep-away that can eventually lead to destructive corner pressure.
c.LP into c.HP should link, every other shoto can do it.
c.LP into LP palm? Every other shoto can do it.
Gouken is cut from other similar shoto cloth and he currently can’t do nearly the same things others can off a single peck. Gouken could also get a buff on c.MP to allow LP palms, LP fireballs as well (every other shoto uses c.MK). If Gouken isn’t a shoto, then make him different: dish more damage/stun, have higher health, etc.
I guess it would be. c.LP x2, c.HP xx EX palm, HP palm is 293 damage, 485 stun. Not as bad as I thought, honestly. Akuma does c.LK, c.LP, c.LP xx LK tatsu, HP shoryu and gets 213 damage, 265 stun.
Probably the worst part is the stun. But given Gouken’s current moveset, being able to hitconfirm for almost 300 damage, 500 stun w/ EX meter probably wouldn’t be that bad…and it’s doubtful he’d even be able to do such a hitconfirm since c.HP’s range is not that great…it’d be a 1-frame link anyway. So, likely, we’d be able to c.LP x2, c.MP xx LP palm.
That’s 180 damage, 320 stun from a 2-frame link after 2 jabs. I…actually like the sounds of that. Not broken, but definitely solid ass damage. Hell, as long as we get that, I’d be happy.
Depends on the overall moveset of the character imho. Given his wakeup game, his loss of demon flip high/low mixups, his loss of instant recovery on whiffed DF grab (it was very useful), and all the other issues we normally discuss about the character that still linger… it wouldn’t be so horrific.
But I doubt they’ll give him practical links anyway. Capcom is too hellbent on nerfing anything they can.
I just thought of something else…getting a +3/+6 c.LP would be HUGE not just combo-wise, but would open up our CH game immensely. c.LP, cl.MP would be a solid frame trap with a 2-frame gap.
CH cl.MP, c.HP xx EX palm…OOOOOO please Capcom, reduce c.LP’s recovery by 3 frames!
I don’t think they’ll allow Gouken to combo cr.MP or any other Light/Medium atack into Hado, because it could potentially allow an infinite, unless they reduce the frame advantage on Hados, which I would not want. I’m very pleased to hear about better jabs, now if Tatsu could hit ALL crouchers ALL of the time, even better.
honestly i think LP Palm should be akin to cammy’s spiral arrow. Where you can hitconfirm it off cr. MP or jabs and launch them across the screen. He needs to be able to get some kinda knockdown of jabs and mediums really give him that and a true vacuum effect on his EX Tatsu so it can be used as anti-air consistently and you have a solid gouken.
That with new counter input is enough to make him a solid mid-tier. Hopefully he gets solid frame tweaks as well.
The new counter input I’m super excited for…not only does this mean tatsus come out when I want it to, buuuuuut that HP counter could be useful…ESPECIALLY if it’s exactly how I think it’s gonna be.
In my opinion, having easier access to AA tatsu is not going to suddenly make him move up that much higher. Maybe it will allow a few more chances of AA tatsu > FADC > Ultra shenanigans… but that will come from punishing a blantantly dangerous jump-in. It’s a slight buff I guess. I’ve been able to throw out tatsu’s on reaction and yet I find myself using kongo or some AA normal.
Point being is that AA’ing right now is not an issue for Gouken. If I had a choice to use a normal AA versus the current tatsu, I would opt for the normal AA most of the time since I don’t have the risk of hanging in the air.
Now if the tatsu was overhauled to be more reliable, that’s another story. Thoughts?
