You guys are going overboard on your reactions to Giefs nerfs.
Looking at his 4 bad match ups, Akuma and Sagat got nerfed at least as hard Gief.
Akuma, got damage nerfs on roundhouse, c.mk, his DP’s and his Red Fireballs (down 50 damage). His ultra one lost as much damage as Giefs ultra 1 did. His ultra 2 looks poor so far.
Sagat 100 less health, all DP’s nerfed to 100, Tiger Knee reported to be nerfed as well. S.HK down 30 damage, forward + roundhouse down 40 damage, ultra down 73 to 510. Sagat’s new ultra appears to have no benefit over his ultra 1 either.
Seth has got a new ultra that does more damage but if he wants it he will have to give up his fireball/ultra trap. His new ultra seems to be more offensive focused but no Seth in his right mind will go on the offensive against Gief. So this seems harder because Gief has less health.
Blanka, got a better corward crouch, travel distance changes to his Blanka Balls. Nerfed ultra 1 in both damage and chip. Perhaps a better c.hp. His ultra 2 is unknown in terms of how usefull it will be. Nothing concrete so far to say this match has got any better or worse.
Big question remark remains Gief new ultra and how effective it will be. Capcom have said the ultra’s where the main part of rebalancing the old cast so Giefs ultra 2 must of been designed to help Gief out in his bad match ups. We just don’t know how effective it will be. It seems to beat all airborne anti air moves. The threat of it alone will make people extremely weary of performing wake up reversals when Gief knocks them down. Perhaps ultra 2 will go through Akuma’s air fireballs.
Its not important, all it will do is take longer to beat gief down its doesn’t change the fact that the basis of the game is still the same. If the air ulta is remotely effective people play around it and it will probably turn the game into even more of a stalemate, or be luck based.
Seth players use this “logic” all the time they say he has crap stun and low energy, while conveniently forgetting that in certain matchups like gief that is irrelevant because its so hard for gief to actually get in, so those things you say mean nothing, if gief got lowered damage and so did the others its all relative and thefore it doesn’t change a thing in the deepeset sense against sagat, seth akuma can make gief look bad all day long even if thye had much lower damage, its getting in thats the problem and thereis nothing added thay does this, only nerfs, if you’re pinning your hopes of landing a new ultra on those 3 when their entire gameplan revoles on keep out, I wish you best of luck.
Seth will still be by large unbeatable.
Akuma will still be able to run away and pummel gief with so many options, air fireball, super air fireball, his full screen jump and throw not to mention the BS traps he can do with his ultra which make the game one giant paranoia fest for gief. And almost a free escape after every knock down. Sagat will same do the same BS, like i said, nothing will change it, it will just make it longer for the game to go the inevitable way.
I’m all for balancing, but you can’t honestly say the game is balanced with such changes when we already know the poor guy has 3 matchups which are practically unwinnable at a high level and nothing fundamentally new to change that its a bad day for gief players and look forward to servers being full of spam characters.
If they can play around it its not remotely effective then. Your dissmissing the new ultra out of hand without it being significantly tested. It seems Giefs main issue’s is he can’t get by the zoning game of certain characters and also the reason he wins alot of match ups is people can’t zone him effectively.
Ultra 2 travels forward and seems to be totally hit invunrable. If it goes throw Akuma’s air fireball (and I’m just speculating here) that would totally change the way Akuma plays. He would no longer be able to use his air fireball to zone Gief. He would still be able to runaway on wake up. He’s combo’s have lost damage and his DP has lost damage as well as loosing to Gief ultra 2. His ultra 1 has lost damage. You could say all this really does is make Gief last longer. But by merely staying in the fight you get more opportunitys to get in and Akuma has more chances to make a mistake.
Ultra 2 could make things like Seth’s wall jump and shoto’s air Tatsu extremely risky when they get corner trapped. You might be able to jump up after an air tatsu thats just gone over you and then use ultra 2 which moves forward to catch them on the way down.
Sagat has 4 major zoning tools against Gief not included Tiger Shots . And two of those Tiger Knee and Tiger uppercut loose to ultra 2 as well as being reduced in damage and the other two his roundhouse and forward + hard kick have been nerfed damage wise. His s.lk is no longer as good a zoning tool as it. I mean these changes seem good for Gief. They where never going to remove these options completely. I mean what did you hope you would get to counter these options?
Of his 4 bad match ups I don’t think you can see that he has got nothing to make some of them easier. Yeah Seth looks worse on paper, Blanka about the same but Akuma and Sagat don’t look quite as tough.
And while its true Gief has some horrible match ups its also true that he was has quite a few advantage match ups. Did you honestly think he deserved no nerfs? or if you did think he deserved some, what do you think would of been justified nerfs?
Just because he has domr terrible match ups does not mean he should not escape the nerf hammer, because changes where needed in order to balance his advantage match ups. You could say buff the other characters so they can compete with Gief but the buffs needed to make certain characters competitive with Gief might simply make some of their other match ups unbalanced as well. So you need to look adjusting the 2 characters in any one match up.
Overall sounds like they want to make it harder for Gief to get in certain match ups but make the pay off better against characters with a strong wake up game.
Between his posts here and his posts in the other ssf4 thread I think its pretty clear stinkybum is a troll account. Its pretty clear he doesnt really understand all the details hes talking about. at least in regard to gief. Against sagat/seth getting in isnt the problem, its that once you get there, he can throw you right back out before you can do any damage. Ultra 2 changes that by making his primary tools for doing that COMPLETELY unsafe. In the case of seth his only real option is teleport, and if you guess that one right you can gh->exgh to negate. anything else and you can ultra2 to force feed him a beating.
Whether or not his ultra-2 will be able to do these things is dependent on two things we dont know yet:
1.Can we buffer the 720/540 into a uf jump and then decide between the 3k for u2 and another attack? (see the JUMP JUMP JUMP thread)
2.How much have they nerfed giefs crossover/wakeup game and can we play it effectively after siberian blizzard?
The biggest bonus to gief could be tier shakeups and the resulting effects on popularity.
Sagat wont be as popular as he has been. There will be LESS sagat players; that alone is a huge boost. Akujma and seth may or may not move around in popularity
I am a little surprised that it seems T-Hawk has more health than gief…
But whatever T-Hawk could be a fun altenative I f I decide I dont like gief as much in ssf4
I Can only respond the same way I responded in your identical post in the other thread:
Utter nonsense. If your relying on cr. lp and ex green hand primarily as a means of injuring your opponent; your doing it wrong.
Whats more, Fireball damage shouldnt be bothersome, you have 2 lariats, ex green hands, blocking, and jumping.
Is zangeif going up or down tier? I dont know.
Is zangeif going bottom tier? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
stupid comments like this is basically the reason why people hoard the tier listing and complain about nothing
gief is still gief
his normals are still the same just watch the vidoes his s mp is still fast as hell and just as good in stuffing things, s mk still is slow as dirt and so is his sweep, s lk c lk c lp are all still the same but his c mp looks kinda faster could be wrong but looked like it
he still has great jab spd grab range and still has his ex gh combos as well as trade lariat to ex gh, lariat is still a great AA his FAB is still the same cannot be jumped out on reaction, and his U2 basically evens out the blanka matchups and can be real helpful in other matchups especially since u can activate it right as u buffer it through something like a c lk buffer 720 and press 3k as u go u+f to catch people who like to jump during gief’s blockstrings in anticipation of a tick spd
his wake game is still gross and his wake defense is still meh
only thing that has changed is his lariat’s hitbox was changed which honestly was needed with how dumb it was. it is still essentially the same (sorry abel users) and damage output has been lowered for all of the cast so who cares if his attacks do less, so do others! add in the less priority of most SRKs and non-trade dps to ultras SSF4 will still be a good game for gief
for whoever mained gief or used him in sf4 that are going to drop him like a bad habit simply because his damage on ex gh his normals and lariat changes, i say this to u
Mother Russia sheds no tears for you. Weak like kitten!
lp ex hand combos and lk ex hand combos are the main method to deal damage
if u guys mean ur main method is spd.
then I tell u
ur opponent is just horrible.
u are fighting scrubs.
The most important weapon of zangief to deal damage is his normals especially cr lp lk. and st mp ex hand
if u cannot understand this
u are just terrible. very simple.
obviously u are disturbing the thread with ur noob’s fighting method
of course its the most important tool to punish
but i can understand it’s means nothing to u.
i doubt if u can link cr lk *n to ex hand
and u think ur most important tool is lariat and spd.
Gief’s main mission is to have you fear the grab and jump, but tick throws are also an important element of this equation. Gief’s combo into EX GH isn’t nerfed just because he got damage reduction (like everyone else). So I don’t see your point. U2 adds a huge aspect to his mix up and he still does excellent grab damage so people will want to jump away even more.