what are you crying about? and his U2 will end when people get used to it?!! how do you get used to NOT anti airing zangief?? thats like people getting used to his current ultra… and just always jumping away…
and talking about chasing people down?! that has always been the case since zangief step onto the SF series… why would anyone want to be near him when he cant do anything from a distance…
and who cares of his lariat hit box got changed… why are you even relying on lariats to hit crouching opponents anyways?!
also you can do PLENTY against peoples ST round house…
what im wondering is… can i do u2 on reaction to AA…
like can i just jump… turn that butter and delay the buttons untill i see a confirmed aa attempt or will it be too late by then… tho in some cases it might be too late against smart shotos/sagats who do LATE cr. srks. but then again those arent the AA im worried about since that rarely comes up (jumping at them at that time)
Meh opponents might just get used to antiairing Gief with normal attacks, especially since special antiair trade to combo is gone and since dragon punches do less damage anyway. Lots of characters have good antiair normals and some already depend on them. I think u2 might end up being most helpful in keeping jumpy opponents on the ground rather than helping Gief do the jumping himself.
eh im not worried about about people who use normals to AA… short/empty jumps work well for those. dont you think david?
this way if they try and use a normal to AA… (depending on the situation and normal) itll whiff and we can just spd. since we are already turning that butter. hahahah//
anyways.
the updates on the characters…
SETH : now has more recovery on his teleports and his Neutral and jump back fierce were nerfed…
Akuma : his easy BnB does less stun now and they mention demon flip follow up (lp +lk) has more recovery frames on it… but was noted it may have meant demon palm? tho why would they say lp+lk? maybe it has more recover frames on it and cant be option selected to DP anymore…
either case…
depending on how those moves for those characters were nerfed… maybe gief has a chance after all. well see when they start finally talking about gief to see if he has any buffs… im hoping for something. i havent jumped ship yet…
This is to be expected in all forums. The game isn’t out yet and everyone is in full freak out mode because it is 2 weeks to release and everyone wants to know how bad their characters have gotten when there is no way they can find out. Like Seth said, they didn’t make anyone worse, they just raised the bar. With all of the buffs/nerfs happening you don’t know how the whole scheme of things will mesh. People can jump ship on the characters that they think got nerfed but truth is, if you really like Zangief and don’t like the nerfs, you’ll still propably end up using him after your shock of SF4 to SSF4 wears off.
Yeah, the short empty jump mixup works well on characters without a great antiair move in 4. It might become more common. But for the opponent I think it’s probably better for the mixup to be spd or jump attack rather than spd or ultra. And in any case, when you see that Gief’s jump has lost some range, I don’t think we can be sure that the short jump will even move horizontally enough to put Gief in a good spd range.
And yeah. Considering that all of Gief’s bad matchups are getting nerfed in ways that make Gief better against them (except for Blanka), and considering that Gief is getting more nimble in footsies and getting an ultra that might help him out in all of his bad matchups, Gief might end up doing just fine. I’m not sure that’s enough to keep me from boarding the good ship Hakan though, heh.
Oh heck yea, gonna be using Hakan no matter what. That is one crazy looking grappler, I cant say i’ve seen a character similar to that in any game. Kudos to Capcom for making such a “colorful” cast.
Think about it, his character style is very original. And he is from Turkey, WTF. Although some of his normals look a little Birdie-ish. Im sure they were working on the Model and decided they wanted to nix Birdie and just made up Hakan instead.
All the new characters we have seen the likes of before in other games.
Rufus = Bob, C.Viper = Generic Lesbo cool girl / KOF, Elf = That mexican guy from KOF.
There is something called Context everyone learned about in elementary school. If you’re to stupid to understand don’t bother typing. The more I read your response the dumber you appear.
The context only tells me your complaining about nerfs.
Not why you expect them to suddenly make gief suck, or why your reacting so strongly.
Those parts of your response definitely require elucidation. Asking for it doesn’t make me stupid. and your needlesly aggressive response only make you look trollish.
I am not going to pass judgement on Hakan until I get much more play time with him. Mostly because, (I shit you not here) I got a regular throw; oiled up with lk, walked forward for a very short amount of time, hit f.rh and tick SPD’d from almost 3/4 screen. His SPD range when oiled seemed to blow Gief’s lp.SPD out of the water. I think there is scary potential there. Maybe I am wrong, and I am fine with that… but everyone who saw it shared a collective “Holy Fuck” moment and I laughed like a PCP Wizard dancing on the highway.
He has no combo knock down ability so people can just hold up all day and the most they get hit with is a fierce or a sweep. He is easy to combo since his AA game is weak without ultra and once your in on him he cant oil up anyway. Rush down characters will do well, and zoning characters will do well against him. He seems to be horrible to me. If you through him on the current chart I’d put him right below Dahlsim tier… Which isn’t good. But I haven’t played it so I could be missing something.
I Suspect Hakkan isnt going to want to be in close range. MY working theory is that theres going to be a magic distance where its not too risky to oil up, and you’ll still be able to take a step forward and catch them with a crazy long range throw. if at that magical distance he also has the tools to play a bit of keep away, all the better.
My Bad. This may be my fault if my words originally appear(ed) to be one extreme instead of another. From what I had read. It appears that the Juice has been changed from what he is. Instead of having a few options to pressure opponents It looks like I have 1. I’ve no problem with Ultra 2, it reminds me of Hugo’s Air Command Grab (super Art). As for Lariat on Wake-Ups I can only assume they mean The 'Gief using lariat when an opponent wakes up. I don’t see why someone would try this since I think it is likely to get wrecked by Upper Cuts which many characters have or a Charge attack which many other characters have, or a command grab which… Abel has. ( I know others have them )
Back to the Pressure Game. In my experience the opponent ends up on the floor father away. EX HIV hand is the only one I ever want to use to get in close, reasons being stated already. But Really I walk to the body. From my perspective it gets the opponent focused on what can happen next. I can jump over them while they wake up, knee drop or even body splash and follow with something else… usually suplex or a string of hits. I can SPD them as soon as they wake up if I catch them asleep. I’ve only tried Lariat on their wake up out of madness. There are a couple of other options but that all adds up into Zangief (as in how he is for me). The Getting in has always been hard and I expect it to be that way. I’m sure much of this shit has already been said.
From the what i had read I am told that much of this is gone and it looks like that I’ll have to react to the opponent. I think this because they weaken his jump. I presume this to mean that he will be far more exposed in doing so. I know people will ask “Why are you jumping with Gief?” I respond that I’m dodging fire balls to get in. I really try to stay away from that against Gouken and Akuma. I just can’t FADC and Lariat everything. I know everyone knows that 'Gief jumping is suicide (almost) but I believe it’s a surprise when I do it over their body when collapsed. I believe I am right because many opponents start to do a multitude of things trying to avoid me the 2nd time around. Like I said I believe the Ultra 2 is a great response to an opponent jumping away but that may get old fast especially when the opponent will know you have that option after they see you’ve picked Gief before they pick their ultra.
This is what I imagine after reading what I had read.
Clydebyrd is right I should wait for the game. But to that I say, many people complained and stopped at the release of the 1st one. It took months and a year to discover great things and then Capcom releases Super with so many changes when it really just needed some TLC for a few characters. The supposed F ranks. We’ve seen the supposed non Tournament Characters do magnificent things. In every iteration (II/3 specifically) of Street Fighter. Although I know the difficulty increases variably for many characters.
This is what I believe to have implied in my original post. Excuse me for beasting at you Greybeard Megaman.
And please (to everyone) no need to tear me apart for my tactics. It has worked well enough for me.
I hope I wasn’t overly expressing the Idea he’ll suck. I don’t think he is an A rating character. B is good. I gather that from what I’m able to watch. I watch as many tournaments as I can (YouTube) I suspect they are high level because it consists of Streams out of California and New York. (What I would consider the Cream of the Crop in the United States, in this I know I am not wrong.) I rarely see Zangief. When I do he has to go through the same hurdles, although refined (higher quality of play in tournaments) as Zangief being used online by John Doe. Although it is a thing of beauty to watch.
I just realized I may not have stated the change. Instead of Zangief the “Bulldozer” in reference to the fear instilled by something the size of him callously rolling up on you, I fear he’ll be Zangief the Wall. Not as cool. Also someone mentioned they believe they won’t make his Ultra 2 something to combo into, I think they will. That idea is inspired by the Challenges in SF4… which I think are ridiculous. Someone once said they wish that the challenges were actually something like With Dhalsim dodge 10 fireballs in a row instead of combo’s that I rarely see actually done.
You’re right. Although I would have said following your bit about Hakan and Birdie that roughly Rufus = Yun/Yang: Elf/Hugo = Rainbow Mika: Akuma/Gouken = Ryu/Ken: Juri = Elena
that statement based on the concept of inspired move sets.
"From my perspective it gets the opponent focused on what can happen next. I can jump over them while they wake up, knee drop or even body splash and follow with something else… usually suplex or a string of hits. I can SPD them as soon as they wake up if I catch them asleep. I’ve only tried Lariat on their wake up out of madness. There are a couple of other options but that all adds up into Zangief (as in how he is for me). The Getting in has always been hard and I expect it to be that way. I’m sure much of this shit has already been said. "
I don’t see what the problem is.
And trials 1 and 2 are pretty useless yes. But every one of his other ones are essential to his play. I see them being used at every high level play. Why are they ridiculous? In fact, you’re probably not playing gief correctly if you’re not using them.
And you still haven’t stated exactly what about his changes that you have a problem with. Aside from the jump because you like to jump in on people. But the thing is, no one has any definitive idea how the jump was changed or how it will affect his play. So what are you so riled up about?
so I could be missing something.