Correction:
You can cancel the knees and flop into the lariat. But yes, the not being able to do anything else while in lariat is correct.
I’ve seen a couple match videos where Gief went into a flop really early and ended up landing straight into a snap out by Sentinel. If he went into lariat that wouldn’t have happened!
Gief needs a teleport.
Seriously though, I haven’t been on here in awhile tell me something good I haven’t picked gief in awhile either.
Sorry buds… I don’t got anything good, other than that Gief is able to fill about 2-3 meters in a single super jump, completely undisturbed with good timing of sj.rh xx spd’s over and over. This is old news, but I was pretty surprised by how fast the meter got filled!
Another reason as to why Gief and Cable make a good team!
This is a bunch of stuff i put up in a random thread a couple months ago. Not much gief lately so i’ll lay it on you.
GIEF/MAG/TRON BEASTBUMLINESS: PART ONE: MANGUS
I think this is gonna be my signature Gief squad to contribute,
Gief(Ground)/Mag(Projectile)/Tron(Take a Wild Guess);
another possible one is Mag/Storm/Gief but thats just cuz i want to call it Team MSG.
I know Mag is top tier, but this is a GIEF team, also this is broken so…
I’m gonna go ahead and start with the dessert course:
TRIPLE OPTION X-UP
(with the same input)
Cross them up with a deep HP Splash, immediate Magnus call (piano key input HP, Mag), c.LK, c.LK (whiff) + Mag hits xx SPD. You suck them in like a vacuum cleaner.
Heres how the triple option works:
1: Do it exactly as above.
2. Do it like above, but change the timing for the last LK (possibly omit it entirely); they’ll cross over b/c of Mag’s beam, then you’ll grab them on the other side.
3. Do it like above but do the 360 motion a bit slower (TK it); you’ll TK SPD them.
WIN-WIN-WIN
^^^This is my jump-off point for this squad. You cross up with protection and healthy option tree, and you get a side switch which covers Mag a little.
X-UP to OVERHEAD MIXUP(S)
Cross up Splash, immediate Magnus, jump up-away LK overhead, (Mag hits)…
… whiff c.LK xx SPD
… dash grab (F,F).
You probably want HK grab. HP if you want to run away or stage an assist-covered HK Aerial Russian Slam. Alternatively, do the command dash but XX Upchuck riiight before it would grab. Proceed with the fun 'n games.
… Got Bar?? Skip the whiff c.LK and just FAB for more vacuumous release.
… Lariat xx FAB
–OR–
… Jump Straight up…
... do nothing. Empty jump, land, SPD
... j.LK overhead, land and duck. They cross over, you SPD.
... j.LK, land and stand. Same side SPD.
... j.LK xx Lariat, pick a side and drive it, tick throw.
I like that you get X-up attempt --> overhead attempt. Go low to make them guess.
WHIFF HK 360/UPCHUCK OPTION SELECT
Whiff HK is a good cross-up SPD trick. Here’s a beefier one.
Cross up whiff HK, then do a 360 that ends with QCB+LP. You’ll either get your SPD, your Upchuck, or a tick LP. Let the game pick.
…My take on GIEF/TRON next…
EPIC G/M/T BEASTBUMLINESS: PART TWO: ZAGNIEF/TRON
Core offensive deal is making the most of every x-up attempt and knowing what finishers will set you up in range for resets / overheads + Tron / instant SPDs.
BASIC X-Up plus TRON OPTIONS
Call Tron, Cross-up HP Splash…
… Land, c.LP, FP, dp+HP
… Land, c.LK, (c.LK), c.HK xx dp+LK, sets you up for another x-up or instant SPD.
… xx midair Lariat, land, j.LK, j.LK, (slight pause if you need to alter you’re height), air SPD -or- land, SPD -or- Lariat.
… xx midair Lariat, land, HK xx DP+LK, Air Throw
… straight FAB, once you get the feel for getting it off of rings. Personally I’ll take the other options over this all day tho, unless I want to get Gief out (DHC King Kobun or Shockwave). IMO much better trading less damage upfront for a shot at relayer pin or mix-up Driver.
That’s a workable offense, if you can set it up. There’s a couple riskier options: you can do the Dash Grab or the Running Bear Grab to catch them after the last Tron ring, but there’s better ways to set those up…
DORK SUITS, STEALTH TACTICS, and SUBTERFUGE
--OR--
THE LOST ART OF THE GRAPPLER
I had a gripe with Capcom on nerfing Zangief for the longest time-- turns out I just didn’t have a concrete enough understanding of the Marvel engine to level Gief up to my liking. Honestly, I think that with perhaps the exception of Hyper Fighting, Gief has never been deadlier. SJ SPDs??? Air Lariats??? Air Grab Special??? Dash Grab??? c’mon. A3 Variable Combo Gief never felt right anyway.
With all the depth of the Marvel experience, there’s a TON of random situations that you can exploit Gief’s strengths. The ability to read/manipulate blockstun factors in heavily to his Piledriver game-- you’ve got to know exactly when they’re open to grab. Other than that there’s plenty more goofy set-ups that lead to big DMG.
Here’s some I don’t mind sharing:
SIDE-SWITCH TRON X-UP:
There’s a way to time the Tron call following the x-up Splash so that they get blown through you. IIRC it works when you call Tron just as you hit an early x-up Splash. I’ll double check the timing later on and update if the description is off.
Once you get the assist call timing, there’s some follow-ups. Blow-thru Tron x-up…
… KK Lariat, SPD. iirc a Tron ring counts as your tick hit.
… overhead j.LK, (scores you an extra ring’s worth of Tron damage), followup.
UPPER TRON X-UP: WITH BENEFITS
cross-up Splash, slight pause, Lariat, land, j.LK, j.LK, land, Dash Grab, call Tron right before you grab (f,f, then double tap assist works)…
… pick a grab or throw to do from Dash Grab -or-
… do nothing, you drop them, last ring in their face (tick hit), SPD
… Running Bear Grab
… j.LK overhead, follow up Lariat or j.HK overhead
Those are the basic possibilities. I like that late Tron ring to help reset your offense.
THEY BLOCKED MY JUMP-IN… NOW WHAT?
Blocked jump-in Splash, Dash Grab…
… if they push-block, cancel dash to block or dp+LK/HK
… if not, either connect the Dash Grab -or-
… cancel it into SPD or Upchuck
WHIFF HK X-UP INSTANT TRON PIN
Jump, Call Tron, Whiff HK x-up, land, immediate Upchuck, Tron pops them out low…
… instant SPD, although you could tick hit, SPD too
… Running Bear Grab
… Dash Grab
… Straight Grab/Throw
… j.LK instant overhead plus Tron residue, land with SPD position advantage
There’s a couple of ways Tron could come out. IIRC a Late call will put Gief and Tron on the same side. If that’s the case all the above set-ups will connect. An Early call is better though b/c it makes a Tron/Gief sandwich. From the sandwich pin you get a guaranteed x-up chance.
For some reason I didn’t try to FAB from this last set-up. Should work though.
EDIT: Cable hit box (and some other shorter characters im sure) has bad overlap for this Tron Pin set-up. Minor drag.
ZANGIEF!!!
Anybody got some other oddball Gief squads? opening moves?
I never use Tron or Mag (I’ll start trying out Mag sometime soon though) so I can’t really relate to a lot of the information that you put in, though I bet it would be more helpful to me if I knew how to play a Mag/Tron/Gief team! 
But also, those options for blocked jump ins are really nice! =) Especially the dash grab.
Okay, so lately I’ve been playing around a lot with Gief’s Air Lariat, which as you mentioned, is a really good move. I use it as a quick defensive move when I’m building bar with Gief, when someone tries to jump up and hit him, and it also adds a little mobility (directing the air lariat to go to the left or right). If it hits the opponent on the way down, it leads into an unavoidable FAB (unless you hit the person when you’re both really high in the air).
So the interesting things I found with this:
-If you do the Air Lariat before the peak of your super jump, and the opponent is in a defensive crouch, and you land on top of them, your Lariat will NOT connect at all. You can go straight into a normal throw or SPD if you land near them, but they can do the same to you.
-If you do the Air Lariat at the very peak of your super jump, and the opponent is in a defensive crouch, and you land on top of them, your Lariat WILL connect with the opponent. (However, you have to land on the same side that you started the lariat from).
-It IS possible to hit them with a cross up air lariat. The timing for this is really weird and/or meticulous, I think he has to hit them on a very specific part of the animation. This could lead to a weird mix-up game where neither you nor your opponent knows what will happen. (Though I’m sure people could work to get the exact timing right, and throw it off a little to mix it up)
-This stuff only works on taller characters, namely Cable, Sentinel, Dr. Doom, Black Heart.
=And for the clincher… the Air Lariat can be blocked both low AND high. WTF? This must be the only jumping attack that you can block crouching. Pretty much eliminates all use for this except for the cross up lariat, or tricking people into thinking you’re going to go for the cross up but just do a splash or knees instead.
[media=youtube]4mlEDIr6mUo[/media]
Here is a video presenting the following:
These really show how important his air lariat really is… helps his mobility a lot and adds some mixup offense options.
I hope my findings are at least semi-novel…
Trickery at 0:20 is getting it done. Awesome.
Regarding the ‘autoblock’ high or low on air Lariat-- its because its a Special move so not technically a regular limb attack. AFAIK you can block all (air) specials either high or low. So a lot of overhead-type moves are deceiving because they look like they should be deadly, but are pretty much autoblock ie Psylocke’s Hidden Kick, Charlie’s Banana Kick, and Akuma’s dive kick.
For the longest time when I first picked up Gief I was doing sj. immediate d.LP elbow drop expecting to get a quick overhead into Tron because I didn’t understand what was going on in terms of game engine workings.
IMO jumping lariat and ‘tiger kneed’ shallow sj lariats are still useful because its Giefs equivalent of tri-jump pressure. Ya its not gonna hit, but it lets you get a fairly quick jump check that creates block stun if they stay grounded. It’s then a matter of managing your assists to maximize your chances for damage.
heres something for air lariat
corner:
(they block) jump-in HP plus Tron, land c.LP, tron rings, TK Lariat (d,u,d KK), land immediate SPD.
you probably don’t need that second down input to TK lariats but i do it anyway-- helps me with the timing or something. You can also set this situation up anywhere on the screen if you set up a crossup Tron pin aka Sandwich Pin.
this setup does crazy damage if you connect your x-up or jump-in, or on block it gets you some positive stun to work with and a shot at an SPD.
IMO you should always do the KK version of the air lariat bc PP leaves you open for a very long time if you do it late and get the ground version
That’s actually a really good idea! I find myself stuck on ground lariats occasionally because I don’t use the KK lariats, but I’ll use the KK from now on.
What’s your take on the glowing fist move? I see the Brian dude use it a whole bunch but it seems to just leave him wide open all the time. The only use I see it doing is crossing up after they’re knocked into the air, and then canceling to a FAB or relaunching and crossing again or something.
Uhg I accidentally turned off my DC while it was accessing the memory card AGAIN! Second time within the past two months. Now I get to spend time unlocking everything again instead of playing around in training mode…
A lot of times, glowing fist or Banishing Flat is a good alternative to the dash. Its basically the inverse of the dash in terms or when your vulnerable. Say you do the f,f ground dash-- you don’t actually get forward movement immediately, instead theres a delay, then the dash. Using whiffed BF instead of a dash is a good way to close the gap a bit quicker. Downside is you have a slight delay after after the move. I’d say I use the glowing fist move to dash about 80% of the time i want to move forward in a hurry. The only time i really use the true dash for moving is to dash in xx SPD or upchuck to get into range.
Offensively i’ll use glowing fist to cause some block stun backed by tron, then go into some kind of a mixup. ex: lp,tron,lp xx BF… then you have a few options.
IMO banishing flat is primarily a movement tool because if youre close enough to BF, then youre close enough to set up a piledriver. Actually a good use of the BF is to whiff xx SPD when you’ve called a slow moving projectile assist like drones or spiral’s knives because even if they call you and counterattack, there’s a good chance that you’re going to trade hits into a position where you can still try for a high damage setup.
I run antics like that a lot with Gief/Spiral/Tron. From full screen i’ll test the waters and just call Spiral proj. and do a HK Aerial RS. Its a ghetto rushdown pattern because even if they counter attack, those knives are still onscreen to keep you from getting to beat up. You can block soon after the move so its relatively safe and you always have the option to bait a response and just do the LK version plus knives and see what they do with it. Far and away the best time to do this is on incoming characters or people landing from a super-jump. Its obviously not cable friendly but theres not much that is.
Gief/Spiral has other stupid options with ARS. Do a deep jump-in attack, sHK plus Spiral xxLK ARS, you airthrow, they get thrown into the knives and you can rejump combo, or they land and wake up into knives giving you a chance to mix them up on wakeup. It depends on the timing of your assist call. Anywhere on screen, you can sHK+spiral xx LK ARS, land, (knives hit), jump, HP air throw. If you’re watching for that Tech-hit IIRC you can still land into a Tron pin or recall Spiral assist.
edit: come to think of it, Gief/Spiral can use glowing fist a bit easier bc you have the option to call Spiral and cause some block stun xx Glowing fist, and knives can cover your recovery.
I didn’t see post this for whatever reason. I had a revelation when i remembered to play Gief old school-- Marvel was too hectic that i didn’t even consider it at first.
All kindsof room for error with his Upchuck command fitting inside of 360. LP and hold, 360 to back, release LP-- its two tricks in one.
I can’t even post some Marvel-specific Gief input tricks i have though. Respectfully, they’re too damn good. :wgrin:
Mech Gief is the truth! (thanks FoxxTrott)
KK Lariat stops most projectiles, most normals, Rocket punch, and he doesn’t get stuck in infinites. He is your counter to magneto for sure. Problems are with AHVB and Hailstorm, w/ hail being the scarier of the two, wondering what kinda options you have there. Maybe you can do vertical Lariat super to cancel some hits?
Things to remember-- he has no air lariat, which is bad, bad news-- if he had that kind of huge hit-zone on both sides of him he be would be broken as fuck midair versus anything. This means you have to play angles smart and use invincible lights to stuff Sent/Storm. Elbow drop gets decent with armor.
ARS is nerfed, but is nigh unstoppable in the corner with Tron assist or anything that pins. For midscreen stuff, read a safe call on tron or a projectile, and jump forward FP xN. Remember you can empty jump just as effectively and look for a pushbock attempt and land, SPD.
Its pretty easy to reflexively block, but it does you nothing, the equivalent of block for mech gief is to counter hit them out of everything. Beam supers, and multi-hit supers seem to stall your counter hits for longer and longer relative to the number of hits, so sometimes its safer to SJ out of/ in anticipation of certain moves.
BF is gone (replaced with vodka fire). Shame that would’ve had beast invulnerability. VF is crouchable so when in close, cr.LK xx VF or dump an assist, VF to make them take the hits. It’s decent chip but the lag is punishable unless you set it up with Doom. Lock-down gief is something thats always been at the back of my mind (crazy enough to work) and IMO he needs that kind of a secondary option to be able to pull the match approach “mixups” that a versatile character can to really dominate.
Smart gief, i.e. is patient and can block, can build enough meter to be able to Mech/un-Mech in the course of a match where its worth the meter and worth the risk-reward based on the current point you’re up against. Mech-Gief has clear advantage over Magneto and has the tools to give Sent trouble.
Some gief things that get even better with MEch mode–
Versus Jugg gief can FAB or SPD to grab him out of HCrush. Timing is probably tight, but i’ve seen it happen too many times by accident for me to think of it being very hard.
Uhh thats actually all i got-- Disappearing for a couple weeks, hope to see some metallic justice done to gief.
Haha Mech Gief does rock the socks.
Definitely dangerous versus Storm and Cable though.
With Storm, if she hail storms, you can tag out easy during the hail animation, and you even have time to tag out before hand. Best is during the animation because Gief doesn’t take all of the damage, and the person who gets tagged in doesn’t take too much damage. It’s an easy safe tag in, trading for a little bit of damage. Also, you have enough time to change back to normal Gief and then start blocking by the time the hail actually starts. Even if the hail does start before you transform, you can still block in normal form, even though you took some hits in mech form.
Versus Cable you definitely don’t want to have Gief in at all, which is fine because Cable can’t snap in too easily anyway. Theoretically, Gief can jump out of the AHVB, but it hits too fast and leaves him stuck for forever. If you eat just two AHVB’s with Mech Gief then you’re pretty much screwed because his hitbox is so huge and he can’t move much. I might play around with the Vodka Fire thing to see if that opens up any options. Best thing to do here is also tag out and hope the person who tags in gets hit in a position so that he’ll only take one AHVB, or even bounce out and start blocking (which is what happens most of the time I think).
Also, be careful when hitting a blocking opponent with Mech Gief assist called out, because then he’s free game for the person to assist counter into Cable and own Gief with the AHVB.
And yes, as ECZangief mentioned, Super Jumping is Mech Gief’s best friend, except for against Storm.
Gief Strats Against Magneto:
-Turn into Mech Gief
Mech Gief Strats Against Magneto:
-This is a really easy fight… all Magneto can really do is run away.
-When fighting Magneto, stay low to the ground. Try to avoid Super Jumping. This is because once you Super Jump, it’s a free tag in for the opponent. If not that’, it’s a free DHC into Hail Storm.
-Normal jumping at Magneto with forward attacks is great, while spamming Sentinel’s drone assist. Your assist is safely behind you. Keeps Magneto locked down for the most part, and does chip damage.
-When you get close enough, mix-up with delayed knees. If you delay the knees to be really close to the ground, it's unpredictable if it will come out as an overhead or a trip (He makes a sound when he does the knees, but not the trip. The sound will come out for the trip if you delay the knees enough.). In either case, it's a great mix-up game. If you manage to trick him, either the Sent Drones will hit, or you can launch them into an air combo. Try not to end the air combo with a HP or HK. This is because if you do, then you knock them into the next screen, and then Gief is stuck slowly dashing back into the screen. Leaves the opponent with a free hit/dhc/tag in. Also, if the opponent dashes back, then Gief is stuck in slow dash until he catches up to them. Only end with HP or HK when they're close to a corner.
-Magneto will likely try to tag out, or else get owned. Main thing to watch for is Magnetic Tempest. If he’s just at one meter, you can super jump to avoid damage, and likely land in time to catch any tag ins. If he has more than one meter, look at the situation.
-Impending DHC to HailStorm? Tag out and hope you'll be able to block, or just stay on the ground, and endure the slight damage, then tag out during the hail storm. It's usually worth it to give damage to Gief and have him chill as an assist while he heals a little.
-Impending DHC to Sentinel Force? Super Jump and whiff SPDs to build meter/float.
-Impending DHC to Sentinel Force and then HailStorm? Your call.
Those seem to be the main things to worry about.
If they recklessly tag in to save Magneto, you can punish with FAB DHC’d into someone else, or just tag in your own character if you’re fast enough on reaction.
I’ve got some (mildly) good stuff stewin’ with Mech Gief… stick around.
EDIT: Scratch that. I’ve got some freaking insane crap to share. Videos will be made.
Here it is! (Especially for ECZangief when he gets back)
[media=youtube]67TlgLvNvp4[/media]
Excellence! Great rundown on mechness Foxx. Lots of things to ponder. That Sent Orb dhc is gnarly. Doom qcf+PP is similar but a lot harder bc of the wonky momentom, so this is really rad.
Re: ending sj air combos, use neutral HP and it sets you up to land close w/o the forced dash. clap
Yay! Glad you liked it!
I meant to do a write up along with the video, explaining a little more in depth about the things presented (there’s a few more perks associated with the dash mode, tagging in vs Storm, and Hyper Sentinel Force punishing), but I haven’t been able to do that yet. I’ll probably do that this weekend though.
dash-mode is disgustingly stoopid. who wouldve thunk… good find-- i’d like to know more about it when you do get around to it, but i’ll tool around with it. really bizarre glitch. maybe somebody on the dev team liked gief.:looney:
I have a feeling that normal Gief might also have a command dash… If you jump straight up and down, and push PP around the time when he lands and jumps, if you time it really well, then you can hear the dash sound come out, but it cancels straight into the jump. It’s probably impossible to access though unfortunately =( I’ve tried for a while. It’s not super important for normal Gief though, since he has the ARS for movement.
Here’s all I know about dash mode:
-Activated by performing any normal attack while you’re going upwards. Can be a super jump, or normal jump.
-When trying to advance on an opponent as Mech Gief, the best option would be to do a forward normal jump with an attack while going upwards, and then when you land, you can start dashing and forward jumping to cover a lot more ground. Or maybe even manual dash the first one, and come out in a rising normal attack, and then the next time you land you can start command dashing.
-Mech Gief covering a whole screen in two jumps… scary.
-During Mech Gief’s dash, and also dashing forward jump, he will keep all forward momentum. This means that nothing can slow him down pretty much. If a projectile hits him, it will push him back, but he will retain all speed.
-If he’s hit by a projectile while dashing, just go into a forward jump and he’ll keep all the forward momentum. I really liked this; tends to surprise the enemy because normally when characters are hit in a dash, they get stopped.
-I’m pretty sure performing most attacks on the ground will take you out of dash mode. Good way to get out of dash mode in case some sent drones are sent at you or something would be to kara cancel into Lariat. Or if you’re quick enough, just do a KK lariat.
-You can easily wave-dash… There’s not really much use of this though because the dashing forward jump is way faster.
-Pretty much makes a dash grab way way easier after an empty jump in.
I’ll edit this post if I remember anything else… but I’m pretty sure that’s it.
^^
Mech Gief is officially a beast. Dojo time, I’ll post up what I can find.
Random other Dash Glitch ish:
Pros:
-Gief keeps the glitch when he switches out. And he can do any of his specials, he can snap, and do any of his grabs and he still gets dash mode.
-You don’t have to whiff a normal to get the glitch all of the time (which is how I originally thought it worked, sounds like Foxx had this fig’d out already). You can also get it by way of a non-combo hit so you can set it up with a jumping up tick hit, x-up plus tron jump away LK to add another layer to that bread and butter mixup stew, and also set it up with a guard break situation in the corner.
Cons: For whatever reason, both PP and KK Lariat has trouble coming out while glitched-- i.e. it doesn’t work. You can get around this by doing a fast normal then instant cancel into Lariat, but you will lose dash mode. Just something to keep in mind, bc the command for lariat changes loosely to normal xx PP/KK in this mode.
Foxx, how do you get the glitch from a SJ?