Gief knowledge

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

This is all the stuff I know with gief… I was gonna make a vid but due to lack of recording equipment and the scene where I am it’s not gonna happen. So here it is in wonderful text form.

GIEF SPECIFIC NOTATION
SPD (Spinning Pile Driver) - 360 + p
FAB (Final Atomic Buster) - 360 + p
RBG (Running Bear Grab) - hcf + k
ARS (Aerial Russian Slam) - dp + k
BF (Banishing Flat) - dp + p
lariat - pp or kk
nuts - df + k throw
bite - hk throw, k after dash
flop - d+hp in air

GROUND ASSIST (A)

  • alpha counter can be cancelled into FAB
  • sets up for supers/snaps nicely (4 hits)
  • good OH setup (only hits high, so opponents duck so no chip)
  • gb setup: call gief, jump + attack, opponent gets hit by gief
    Generic - Jump, call gief, air throw into
    Iron Man - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lp, j.lp, j.lk, j.lk, j.uf+hp, inf
    Magneto - cr.lk, cr.hp, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, land, j.lk + call gief, j.hp, j.hk, tempest (the end can be inputted anywhere during rom reps)
  • cr.lk, cr.hp, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, land, j.lk + call gief, j.hp, j.hk, land, sj.lk, ad/df, cr.lk (reset) … (ditto for here)
  • cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, dash, rom
  • in corner, launch, magic, hp throw, cr.hp + call gief, sj.hp, ad/d, hp, land, snapback/cr.hp…
  • in corner, launch, magic, hp throw, cr.hp + call gief, sj.lp, sj.hp, d+lk, lk, rom
    Morrigan - cr.lk, cr.hp + call gief, sj.lk, sj.d+hk, darkness illusion
    Rogue - s.hk + call gief, (hold forward), sj.lk, sj.hp, lk, kiss
    Sentinel - s.hk, magic, fly, hp throw, f.lk + call gief, f.hp, unfly, dash, s.hk…
  • call gief, hp throw, s.hp, hp rocket punch, HSF
  • s.hk, sj.lp, sj.lk, fly, ff.lp + call gief, f.hk, unfly…
    Storm - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg, sj, ad/f, lk, lk, lightning attack x2, lightning storm
  • cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg xx lk typhoon xx hailstorm
  • cr.lk + call gief, cr.lk, s.hk otg, sj, ad/f, lk, cr.lk… (mixup with trijumps etc…)
  • in corner, s.hk, sj.hk, ad/df, hk, land, s.lk, s.lp, s.hp, s.hk, call gief, hk throw, repeat

THROW ASSIST (B)
Chun Li - in corner, s.hk, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp, sj.d+hk, call gief
Magneto - launch, magic, ad/uf, magic, fly, call gief, unlfy

  • launch, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, j.lk + call gief, j.lk
  • call gief, dash, rom
    Iron Man - cr.lk + call gief, cr.lp, dash, inf
    Sentinel - in corner, s.hk, magic, fly, hp throw, f.lk + call gief, unfly
    Storm - in corner, s.hk, sj.hk, ad/df hk, s.lk, s.lp, s.hp, s.hk, j.lp + call gief

SNEAKY DHCs
Setup throws with things like AHVB! Good times.
Cable - cr.lk, cr.lk, s.hk, hp psimitar xx HVB, DHC FAB
Cammy - launch, magic, air throw, cr.lk, cr.lk (whiff), qcf+kk, DHC FAB

  • hp throw, cr.lk, hk cannon drill xx KBA, dash up, qcb+kk, DHC FAB
    Hayato - b+lp (plasma series start), lp, hp, lk, lp, (non plasma series link) cr.hp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.lp, sj.d+hk (whiff), qcf+pp, DHC FAB
  • in corner, b f+pp (command throw), cr.hp xx qcf+kk, DHC FAB
    Magneto - launch, magic, ad/uf, magic, tempest, DHC FAB
  • launch, sj.hp, ad/df hp, hk, land, cr.hk, tempest, DHC FAB
  • launch, sj.hk, ad/df, d+lk, lk, tempest, DHC FAB
  • in corner, cr.lk, s.hp, sj cancel, ad/f hp, tempest DHC FAB
    Rogue - in corner, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.hp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.d+hk, super DHC FAB
    Ruby Heart - cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.hk, lk sublimation, j.hp, dash, partinelle, DHC FAB
    Sentinel - hp throw, cr.lp, fly, ff.lk, f.lk, turbine, DHC FAB
  • cr.hk, ff.lk, f.hk, turbine, DHC FAB
    Wolvie (ME) - in corner, cr.lk, s.hp xx Fatal Claw DHC FAB

GENERIC DHC SETUPS

  • rush super (good on block), dhc (works well with shotos where last part is overtop opponent)
  • dp, air super, dhc (a la cable, also works with ryu, cyclops, sonson etc…)

NOTE - for shits and giggles, other throw supers may be subbed in for FAB (akuma/d.sakura raging demon, dan suicide, sim yoga strike [specific DHCs only], bb hood hyper apple for you)

COMBOS/THROW SETUPS

  • cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, SPD
  • cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.hp, land, follow up
  • cr.lk, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.lk, pp lariat, land, cr.lk(pseudo crossup), cr.lp relaunch [or] jump back flop, df+lp relaunch [or] follow up throw
  • cr.lk, s.hk, lk ARS
  • cr.lk, s.hk (one hit), hp BF, follow up throw
  • in corner, nuts, otg cr.lk, cr.lp…
  • (blocked) s.lp, s.lk, lp BF, follow up throw
    with mags(a)- crossup flop + call mags, s.lk, s.lk, RBG/FAB
  • in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk + call mags, cr.hp, jump in hp SPD
  • in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk + call mags, s.lk, j.lk, follow up throw
  • in corner, flop + call mags, s.lk, lk ARS
  • in corner, flop + call mags, s.lk, s.hp, lp BF, follow up throw
    with sent(y)
  • jump in flop, s.lk, s.lk, lariat xx FAB framekill dhc HSF (for those of you who prefer guaranteed combos)
  • cr.lk, cr.lp + sent, sj.lp, sj.u+lp, lp (on way down), follow up throw
  • crossover flop + call sent, cr.lk, cr.lp, reset
    with spiral(a)
  • cr.lk + call spiral, cr.lp, sj.lp, sj.u+lp, cr.df+hp relaunch
  • cr.lk + call spiral, cr.lp, hold forward when you follow the launch, sj.lp, sj.hp, reset
  • cr.lk + call spiral, s.hk, lk ARS follow up throw
    with doom(b)
  • cr.lk + call doom, s.hk, lk ARS, j.lp, reset
    with most assists
  • in corner, bite/nuts, otg cr.lk, + call assist…
    to mecha gief
  • flop, s.lk, f+lariat, transform (transform on last hit to knock away or earlier to keep opponent near, can be used to setup throws/combos)

FOLLOW UP THROWS
SPD
RBG
FAB
walk up nuts
dash throw
psychic lk ARS
Jump in air SPD

ARS MOVEMENT

  • use hk ARS as a better normal jump to cover long distances and crossup
  • you come out in jump mode so you can call assists
  • bait with lk ARS when they expect the hk version
  • if you feel lucky, use it as a psychic on wakeup
  • useful to fake “jump” in, then throw (use aerial SPD for most surprise factor)

ON MECHA GIEF

  • mecha gief (rdp+lk) can’t block, but cannot be hit out of anything, only thrown
  • use sparingly. Not a bad idea in a 1v1 situation (depending on who its against). Not worth it to pop first thing in a round and switch
  • his ARS sucks. it goes no where close the distance of normal giefs. DONT USE IT
  • fire is good to stuff other assists
  • remember to switch playstyles. Mecha gief can’t block so go all out
  • you can transform back to normal gief using the same command, and since it only costs one meter this is a good idea at times
  • crossup flop + call sent, s.lk, s.lk, hp breath (xx super if you really want to, but damage isn’t too hot after all the buffering, dhc possibility though, can also be used to set up normal gief pop)

HK CANCELLING
I’m not sure as to how useful this is, but I do know that it isn’t worthless. So you can SJC gief’s s.hk on the second hit. The trick for the timing is to do both the down and the up motion of the SJ during the second hit. This can be used with assists to extend an otherwise short combo. The two I found to work are with spiral (a) and thanos (a).

Cr.lk, s.hk + assist, SJC, lk, lp, hp.

You can follow up thanos assist with another combo. Spirals can lead to either a tick throw or a relaunch with df+hp.

RANDOM NOTES

  • with mags, if you connect a cr.lk on a short character or a croucher, and want gief a assist to connect, use cr.lp as a follow up
  • if you are interested in gief’s y assist, check out murakumo’s second dhalsim vid; at the end there’s some really nice guaranteed resets. It’s better then anything I can come up with. Also Check out his own gief vid.
  • mashable: bite, nuts. Mashed nuts does 48 damage(!!!). Do 360s during SPD/FAB for more damage.
  • you can air spd standing characters
  • check out the srk newbie thread under mvc2 general for advice on mashing (courtesy of joe zaza). It can also be applied to getting more damage out of SPD/FAB
  • trick from Higher Jin: after hp air combo finisher (midscreen), hold back. This will put gief into flying screen but in dash range, pretty much guaranteeing a throw
  • after landing a RBG/SPD (where the opponent is thrown away), if they roll you can cross them up via FAB DHC HSF during the roll (they will roll behind sentinel). Other anti-roll options include jump back flop and standing SPD. Opponents will learn to stop rolling.
  • alpha counters with (a) gief are sweet. If your point character is getting rushed down do a 360 during block starting with the alpha counter, then continue rolling the joystick for a FAB.
  • if you land a lariat, you can cancel into FAB then framekill DHC into stuff like hail/proton canon/HSF for guaranteed damage
  • you can ‘float’ in the air by just doing whiff spds. Good vs sentinel who will want to ub you whenever you jump.
  • empty jump ins are your friend. If you do knees (d+lk) or flop or lariat while jumping, you don’t get to do anything else until you land so be wary.
  • poke and poke and poke. His normal lights may not be on par with other chars, but they are pretty good for block strings and more importantly, setting up throws.
  • don’t rush blind, you’ll get killed. Play smart and deliberately.
  • Ultimate Atomic Buster aka UAB aka the level 3 super (360+kk) is useless. It’s a waste of 3 meters. Don’t use it
  • to avoid sent UB when snapped, do an aerial spd when you come on screen to float

VIDS TO CHECK OUT

  • murakumo’s gief vid (really crazy aaa assist stuff)
  • djb13’s TotT vol.24
  • magnetro’s gief vid
2

gawd damn, good run down. I’ve actually been fucking with gief myself but since i’ve never learned how to 360, I generally don’t play gief for low tier. I’ll post up some tricks I know later.

3

d+Lk, Hk (hits twice), call drones on 2nd hit, lk ARS onto drones , gief still in air - Lk, land 360 grab or FAB, whatever.
Can do Lk mk lariat too depending on how close to the opp gief is after the slam and how high the drones hit.

Gotta make sure you call drones late so you can still combo the Lk.
On big peeps like cable and sent you can let the Hk hit once and still do LK ARS.

4

That’s a nice little throw setup. Very nice.

5

thanks - I don’t use gief though - just messed about a bit in training mode.

6

if you do d+fp or any of other giefs moves that cross up, you can call your assist before or after the xup and lariat back to the original side. Its a double cross up. and you can even aim the lariat to hit xup too so it becomes double crossup both sides. This trick actually becomes quite useful when you use it after his upchuck(dwn, dwnbck, back+lp) or after FS.

c.fp does have pretty good priority. Above average from my exp with him but his FS is horrible. He’s just too damn fat. Its a good idea to end all air combos with neutral fp or a lariat. Neutral fp causes no FS dash after an AC gief even gets to land front or back side depending on the range you are at. Once they wake up, use the double xup trick with tron and go get em.:rofl:

gief ron:

c.lk+tron, c.mk, srk+lk cancel. from here, you can do a few things.

  1. you can overhead because tron rings will still be pinning.
  2. wiff overhead, 360 or up chuck. dwn, dwnbck, back+lp? its been a while.
  3. once your able to work your overheads, you will force the opponent to stand and block. When that happens, you can actually 360 that guy coming down from the srk+lk.
  4. If they manage to block all of this, gief will land in time to relayer off of the 3rd tron ring. You can do c.lk tick 360 or tick up chuck.

I never really mastered gief but by doing this as your staple point of your offense, it would be very hard to stop. Its a high hit or untechable throw w\in a span of a few frames.

iirc, c.rh+tron, srk+lk, fall lp\lk, land, TK 360. Even for assist punishment, c.rh+tron, srk+k will do the damage and allow gief to do something.

theres a basic combo that does like 95% life, I think its like c.lk+tron, c.mk, srk+lk, fall fp\rh, land then lariat, 360PP. I think that was it.

giefs up chuck move, dwn, dwnbck, bck+p, sets up his crazy resets. iirc, if you’re out of range for this move and you do it, its just a LP. It only works when you are in the proper range.

after up chuck, you can do something like, jupfwd, d+fp+tron for crossup, if it gets blocked lariat back to the original side and try to get a hit.

after certain AA’s. Gief can follow that AA hit up with a srk+k depending on the angle. Theres one angle during giefs srk+K thats has super priority on it. iirc, after the air throw hits, can’t you OTG if they don’t roll it?

7

Can’t otg after his airthrow - as he tosses them down he stays in the air for a bit and he has nothing to hit them while he’s still in the air (Knee won’t hit otg, elbow drop is too slow).

Adding more…
gief can actually sj cancel from the first hit of his s Hk - hard to get sj Lk after.

After gief’s qcb + Lp throw he can call drones and j hp throw behind him onto drones.

Also if gief hits a standing person with his jumping P lariat he can can combo j Lk, mk lariat to follow up, then quick airthrow. On people like cyke he can do j Lariat into s Hk.

Also mecha gief has a lariat super f,df,d,u +2K ( I think)
can do his flame xx cancel into the lariat super (have to be close, and cancel after the 2nd/3rd hit of flame) Fat chance of landing it but.

8

Short 'gief vid I made. Inspired by this thread.
[media=youtube]L40NezpLIoc"[/media]

9

Eh…i this combo while messing around with gief, but for some reason I couldnt duplicate it for the video. Anyway, there it is.

qcb + lp, at the last possible second call tron and walk under the opponent, hold back (away from opponent), opponent gets hit by 2 trons rings, qcb + lp, whiff fp banishing fist xx (U)FAB.

why it works: even though tron’s assit hits 3 times. There is a slight delay between the 2nd and 3rd right. The first 2 rings push the opponent away from tron and by you walking back it allows the opponent to be pushed way even more, instead of trapping them between gief and tron. timing is the biggest issue, though.

10

About changing Zangief into mech mode, and then switching out at the start… Wouldn’t this be safe if you were starting out against Magneto?
Against Mech Zangief, Magneto isn’t able to pull his infinites, and pretty much has to run away and build meter, and then when he’s in the air you can just pull a normal character switch and hope he doesn’t land fast enough.
Against storm, you can just turn into Mech Zangief and swap out normally when shes charging in the air.
I just think starting out with Zangief and swapping out starting vs Cable would be a bad idea. Same with Sentinel, but not as bad as with cable.

11

Been fooling with Gief/Spiral (Proj.) for awhile, and I found a pretty cool tag-out combo. With Gief in close, call Spiral, normal jump to cross them up, then throw them away from you. As they land on the knives, switch characters.

The cross up part can be jump over Splash then Throw, early LK (hits on the way up, Gief continues to jump over) then Throw, or empty jump over then Throw. You want to time the assist call so that they land pretty high in the knives. Not too groundbreaking and from a risk/reward standpoint its not great, but useful at times. Nice in that it makes a non-teched throw a one hit-kill opportunity (Mag, Cable, Iron Guy etc.)

IMO Spiral Proj. really helps Gief if you can read your opponent’s assists. Spiral + HK ARS is great for getting in after a baited AA, and is a scary move to deal with if you’ve just snapped them out or killed a character. It’s nice because even if your jump in with Gief gets countered, they’ve still got knives in their face. Right now setting up this move is the staple of my offense, but it’s maad predictable. I try to intelligently set this up and use it sparingly, but honestly when I’m not going for this at every opportunity, I’m getting rushed. And Gief on the run is ugly, he doesn’t even have a back dash.

My recurring thought on Gief is that there’s so much damage potential there, he’s just not mobile enough to take advantage of it.

12

Mag (projectile) Mix-up

There’s also a nice mix-up when crossing up with HP Splash and Magneto’s Proj. Assist. You can actually control which side they land on after getting hit by Mags.

Ex: Call Magneto, Gief jumps from left to right to cross up with db+Hp, landing on the right side, then …

Hold Away (walk backwards) to keep them on the left, or

Hold Down (duck) and they’ll flip over you and land to your right.

With the second option, on smaller characters you can actually hold Towards (maybe even Neutral, I forget), but with Sentinel/Blackheart-type characters you’ve got to duck or they’ll get hung up on Gief’s sprite.

While they’re being flipped from the Magneto hit you can whiff a LP, or LK then SPD right when they recover, or whiffed hit QCB + LP, or try another x-up.

Random GIEFness

QCB + LP plus Psylocke AA or Cyke AA (probably a few others) combos from the upchuck. With Psylocke, they’re in dead state, so you can OTG then air combo, HK xx DP + LK, or jump LK, LK, SPD. With Cyke they get carried away from you so you have to HK ARS to rush down.

Doom has a couple sneaky ways to DHC to FAB.

– from a SJ HCB + PP that misses. Which is a pretty obvious one.

– from a QCF + PP that connects or is blocked. During Doom’s super the character is being jolted left and right in the blast; you have to DHC to the Buster as they are going away from you. When you do it right they are propelled right into the grab. I’ve had it work doing Dooms Plasma super with the enemy grounded and also by catching them jumping in. Cool because its free chip + FAB. Storm/ Doom/ Gief is fun as a result.

Speaking of Storm-- most (if not all) of the Fly Screen combos with Gief/Spiral (Proj) will work with Storm (Proj). Which is good because a DHC to Hail Storm from the Buster makes the FAB worth doing from a damage output standpoint.

13

I’m bored, I might as well chime in with a few zangief nuggets I’ve been playing around with. Some Gief + Thanos low tier ownage:

Zangief on point w/ Thanos capture assist:
Cross up Body Splash(D+P),lk,hk(2 hits, call thanos after 2nd hit) x dp+lk (they get tossed into bubble) D+P (body splash on the way down from the ARS), c.lp,c.mp sj.lk,sj.mk -> SPD. Thats 100%+ on standard defense characters.

Amusing use for Zangiefs Air throw type assist with Thanos on point:

fp+assist xx power ball. Thano’s fp sends them flying just a bit and the super freeze actually helps the timing allowing zangief to throw them directly in the super for hefty damage. By itself it’s very amusing but if you’ve got 2 more supers saved it gets fun.

fp + assist xx qcf+pp, qcf+pp (blocked), assist, qcf+pp. with tight timing they have no choice but to block the second powerball super and since you’ve ended the combo you can call geif back out and he will grab them after they finish blocking and throw them into the 3rd super pretty much killing anybody.

I haven’t been to an arcade in years so I’ll let you folks have fun with that =)

14

Gief/Jugg (Body Splash assist thing):

dLK, dLP, sjHK, Jugg Hits, sjHK :

Hits for half life on anything that moves, more if Jugg is glitched. There might be a LP/LK before the first sjHK-- i can’t remember. Causes forced dash on Gief though which is punishable, so if it’s not going to kill skip the last sjHK and hit sjLK or sjLP xx SPD on the way down.

edit if you do neutral sj.HP as your finishing hit, you don’t get forced dash, plus you are in a perfect position to x-up/50-50/wake-up SPD, whatever.

Good corner options for both Gief/Jugg and Jugg/Gief, which is fun.

Gief/Jugg:

dLP+Jugg, dLP, Jugg Hits, dfHp launcher, …

      ... sjLK, sjLK, Lariat/360
      ... sjLK, sjLK, Air Throw (hold neutral to land same side, towards corner to xup most characters)
15

Theres a really OG Super Turbo trick that helps out Gief in Marvel, I totally forgot about it.

By negative-edging your SPDs and doing the 360 motion so that you end up at Away or Up-Away you can ensure that if you botch the input you won’t get a whiffed normal. Also, if you miss the 360s directional input you wind up at block or jump block. Just a minor beef up for his wake-up and counter Piledriver game, but when a whiff means game over etc etc.

Also, regarding SPDs can anyone confirm that you control the direction Gief SPDs them in by finishing the motion at either a towards position or an away? I’m still not 100% on that, but it does seem that most of the time I spin it f, df, d, db, b, f I get a forward momentum SPD and vice versa with the opposite input.

16

Gief Special and Super Frame Data

borrowed from Joo’s site:
commas = separation of LP/LK and HP/HK versions of moves if they differ.

PP Lariat: 4

KK Lariat: 4

Aerial Russian Slam: 17, 30

Screw Pile Driver (ground): 4
(air): 9

Flying Power Bomb: 7

Banishing Flat: 12

Vodka Fire: 21

Dash Grab: 10

Air Throw: 1

FAB: 5+0

Ultimate FAB: 4+0

Siberian Blast: 6+0

Lariat Super: 3+0

I didn’t realize the Lariat Super was only ~3 frames of start-up.

17

A not-very-useful thingy for when you swap in Cable, and you happen to hit the opponent and send them swirling in the air. (Kind of rare to hit… but it does happen.)

In corner:
cr.lk when they hit ground from swirling in air, cr.lp, call Zangief assist, walk backwards for AHVB space, and then AHVB.

Not in corner (I know you can just go straight into AHVB for when they’re not in a corner, but this could get a tiny bit extra damage…)

dash in when control returns to Cable, cr.lk when they hit ground from swirling in air, cr.lp, call Zangief assist, AHVB.

This is probably pretty useless though because I’m pretty sure they can roll out of their fall, and avoid the cr.lk…

Video Demo:
[media=youtube]wEEL51CTE6M[/media]

18

^^

Pretty cool. Gief Lariat assist is pretty easy for anybody to work with-- it locks them in for long enough for anybody to grab free supers. Julian Robinson (?) used this way back, and kinda like in your vid, he only used Gief from what I could tell for his scrubby assist properties. If you’re looking for that, I’d just go with Akuma Expansion, it’s just as fast or maybe moreso, aaand you get horizontal movement.

A halfway decent Cable/Sent or Cable/Storm can run any assist that stuns them for a bit or any Anti-air and beast up pretty easy if you’re smart with your assist calls.

Random unrelated Gief Dash-Grab trick…

Since the command dash-grab has a noticeable lag between the point when you start dashing and the point when you can grab them, it’s not always the best move when you use it as is. But, since it has the properties of a dash, you can cancel it out at any point. A useful trick that takes advantage of this is to cancel the dash into a 360 or an Up-Chuck.

If Gief’s dash was instant, this would have disgusting potential, but for whatever reason they thought that it would make Zandon’t-Even-Get-To-Move-Around-In-This-Gamegief too broken if he had fast start-up up for his incredibly slooow dash that he can’t even Wave-dash with:arazz:.

“Gief has that Lariat thing for PP, so lets give him a F,F dash-grab instead.”
“Ya!”
“Well. It’s a grab, so we’ve got to slow it down or it’d be too cheap.”
“Yea. Let’s give it slow start-up too just to be safe.”
“Maybe we should give him a jet-pack…”
“Too late for that, the game ships tomorrow and my acid’s starting to kick in.”
“Okay. Well let’s break Sentinel a little more.”

Capcom playtested this game during a week-long drug frenzy.

19

I like Gief better because he has those semi-tank qualities and tends to force a low block among other things… And he pretty much stops rushdown when used as an assist. Akuma is just too good at dying fast.

And also the mech gief option is great too.

20

Heh, ya that’s true about the vitality. Cable/Gief is nasty. I like Gief on point too much though, and Gief/Cable AA doesn’t do anything for me. Grenades or Proj. is better, but awkward when it comes to interacting with whoever is your third character. Thing with Gief is, you don’t necessarily need any old AA as much as you need an assist that lets you gain ground on them. IIRC Cable AA knocks them too far away for you to close the gap.

IIRC Cyke is good. Forward moving AA that doesn’t knock them too far away. You can UpChuck them into Cyke AA.

Psylocke is actually really good. Quick and you can set-up j.LK, j.LK, air SPD off of it. IIRC you can Upchuck into it as well. Works the other way too bc Psy gets rejump combos off of Lariat assist and Psy can qcfPP xx FAB DHC.

Doom is good for obvious reasons.

Storm vertical Typhoon or Blackheart AA bc it locks them in place for a bit.

From a lot of angles though Cable still better because what you lose in team chemistry hijinks you get back with AHVB etcetc.